Size-Chart Fun!

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:08 pm

So the Ranch of Doom has a lot of dragons frolicking about in its many dusty-ball pastures, right?

I decided to attempt to size them up. XD I've only gone through the (paged) dragons under my possession, but if I can fit them, I'll try to include the other 'half' of the Ranch's 'possessions'!

Anyways, sorry for the size of the image, but I didn't want to shrink it /too/ much! Each line is 2 feet, and sizes may be off a tad due to weird poses and me having to guestimate, but here we go!

XD Hooray!

Myrror · Post by **Myrror** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:11 pm

Sheeesh, some of those dragons are HUGE

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:13 pm

Haha, I'm not the only one who makes size charts to get a visual ref of their dragons! XD Yay!

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:14 pm

Oooh, do you have one for your side of the RoD yet, then? :O *wants to see!* Share, womahn!

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:21 pm

Not for the Ranch yet... but I do have one for all my Phantoms...

...and this one I put together yesterday for Caco's and my Avengaea-group chars. X3

I wonder how quickly I can do one for my Ranch-half... <_<

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:44 pm

o_0 Cezaer's BIG.

Kudos on the other size charts, too. I completely do not have the patience to figure it out.

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:51 pm

XD That's why Cezaer doesn't understand the point of bonding! ~What the hell am I supposed to do with a bite-sized morsel if it's stuck to my mind like some kind of short-lived parasite?~ etc.

Heyla, Phe? How big are your Samanayrs? *wants to include them, since they're at the Ranch!* XD

(Loving the aven-chart, by the way. God those dragons are big compared to Aki & co.! *laughing!* X33)

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:09 pm

Does the Sams' page not say? Oh, so it doesn't. ::updates it so it does!::

And now you know why Chario pretty much lives in human-form. X3 Think Sentio does, too. But Kenjista just struts, and threatens to step on Akija a lot. <_<*

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:52 pm

Alright Terter, you want it, you got it. Phew. XD

Naeodin · Post by **Naeodin** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:56 pm

*stares at the one flying*

cheater! i can do that as well!

*runs along side the measuring thing and jumps up and down*

*straaaaaaiiin*

dangit.

i'm still short....

^^

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:45 pm

Oh shi--

XD Now to combine them all into one! *Cacklefit!*

I'm so adding whichever dragons I happen to get on my b-day to our RoD posse! X333 I'm sure it won't be as much as last year, now that b-day's aren't as convenient, but it'll still be awesome! *cackles s'more*

Also, those Sams are so damn cute being that small. XDD If I get any, can I add them to the posse, even if there's not a breeding Song?

*gives Sunny some little angel-wings to offer help* XD

.....My god, do Aven's grow a lot. XD No wonder it takes them 50 years to reach adulthood!

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:06 pm

Dray wrote:Also, those Sams are so damn cute being that small. XDD If I get any, can I add them to the posse, even if there's not a breeding Song?

::cackles:: Of course! X3

Dray wrote:.....My god, do Aven's grow a lot. XD No wonder it takes them 50 years to reach adulthood!

The mystery remains, however, as to why they can only have one-- or sometimes two-- kits at a time. 8O I mean heck, with that size difference, a mother could easily hold a clutch nearly as large as Synth 03 was! XD Though I guess as sentients that actually keep and raise their kids, giant clutches wouldn't be a wise evolutionary choice. But even so! 8O

Mystic Dragon · Post by **Mystic Dragon** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:22 pm

*coughs and dons her psych hat*

Actually, clutch ratio isn't determined by size. As you may notice, creatures half the size of a crocodile can lay just as many eggs. And at the same time, a monkey one eigth the size of a human can have only one or two offspring per birth.

The real determinant in clutch size is intelligence. The larger the brain, the more energy must be expended to create the offspring, the fewer can be made.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:29 pm

Mystic says it right!

It's an evolutionary quirk. Part lack of extreme virulence, part genetic holdover/quirk from the times when dragons were a lot smaller. :3 They weren't always this big, and won't always be, so big clutches would give smaller mommies big issues. o.o;;

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:10 pm

Oh I know and understand the thing with intelligence... but as I understood it, intelligent creatures have few offspring because the baby has to be born with a large head for said brain. So, when the parent creature is as large as an Aven, and getting the head of a tiny baby out of the birth canal isn't difficult because the baby is so small, you'd expect nature to take advantage of the situation and start producing more offspring per pregnancy, since that's nature's entire goal-- offspring.

Infertility, however, is an aspect of the Avens I'd forgotten at the moment, and provides the explanation I was lookin for.

Thankya Kat.

Mystic Dragon · Post by **Mystic Dragon** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:24 pm

Actually, the big head is part of what controls the population. Before we had hospitals and specialized tools and all that fun stuff, many, many women died of childbirth. Something like fifty percent. It was nature's way to compensate for our intellect.

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:36 pm

Heh, I've heard of being too stupid to live, but too smart to live as well? XD Love that.

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:41 pm

:O Too stoopid to die!

.... Ah, it's only 11 and I'm getting that 2AM feeling again, Phe! ;.; Look vut skool hast done to mee! I am talkink in accent now with brraighn mooshink out ears!

....>.< omg go to sleep now you dumb terrypoo. *baps self on head*

GildedLilly · Post by **GildedLilly** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:44 pm

*pokes Dray's brain back in*

Noh, zis vill neva' doo. Bran moost shtay en heyed, noh?

Post by **Dray** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:52 pm

Ohgh aye, lasseh, butchell neverrr knoh when a gude brayn leekehn ehs called fuhr, naoh, do yeh?

o_o -_- @_@

Mystic Dragon · Post by **Mystic Dragon** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:02 am

*hobbles in and baps you all* Bed! Now! *hobbles away*

Shiolar · Post by **Shiolar** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:45 am

If intelligence is the key to number of offspring, then why do cows only have one calf at a time, but dogs have six or more puppies at a time?

I think the size of the head thing mostly applies to humans. I don't think it's a factor in many other species, because human babies are basically born premature because of the head. Very few animals have offspring that are so utterly helpless. Even the other apes, which are probably quite close to us in intelligence, at least have the ability to cling to their mother to ride around when they're born. And dolphin babies can swim.

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:12 am

Yeah dolphins - dolphins have brains equitable to ours in size and complexity, and baby dolphins are almost like "little tiny full grown" ones, at least for learning curve purposes...

I don't know about cows being a fair comparison though, as hoofstock in general from deer (the tiniest antelopes to the biggest sable) have only one or two at a time due to herding conditions.

I'd still say that our dragons can grow darn near as big as they'd like to: dinosaur eggs containing baby dinos are only the size of my hand fingertip to heel - and to grow to a size of like 20 feet long from that is pretty impressive. Most of our dragons eggs, at least according to lots of our hatchings and the pernese books, are quite large - I would say ostrich-egg sized at the smallest. They've got room to develop.

And heck, why Avens would take so long? They've got to master magic and psionics, their culture is set up for it. Perhaps in their deep past they didn't take as long, but had less to do or learn.

.... Iiiiii.... dread making a chart like this for my dragons...

Post by **Dray** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:21 am

*laughs!* X3 Shard, with your number of dragons I think it might take years!

I suppose that you could break them up into groups, and then into charts by size-groups? :O Still, if you don't want to do it, I'd understand! XD

Mystic Dragon · Post by **Mystic Dragon** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:31 am

Um... actually it does factor in to other species. Hoofstock really aren't a great example for the reasons Shard put in. If you look at monkeys (smart) compared to lizards (stupid) then you see how the ingelligence controls the birthing amount. Also, smarter animals can have less offspring on average due to the cost of producing the egg in the female. More brains = less energy to make them.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:34 pm

To be honest I always wondered how if dragons are so intelligent and so huge and live for such a long time, then HOW would biology allow for them to have 10+ offspring at a time? Wouldn't evolution and overcrowding eventually kill them off? That's why I limit my Cyrnan eggs to five or less, and even that's pushing it

It made sense for Old World because only a small percent of the population actually could breed, and they seemed to be immune to inbreeding, but for some species, it really is rather mind boggling.

LakotaWolf · Post by **LakotaWolf** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:50 pm

::wanders over and gapes::

Holy crap, Schattarneki are TINY XD I never really realized, until I got a scope of some of the other dragon breeds around :3

Thanks for making these, Dray and Phe... it's like, you can look at a dragon's size-stats all you want, but you don't really realize how LARGE 30 feet tall is unless you get some perspective O_O

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:55 pm

XD A-yep. To be honest, I didn't mean for the Avens to be SO big, but since they're here and people know how big they are already, well, I'm fine with them being big, too. :3 Size-changing spells yay!

Another possible reason for Avens having so few babies is the rate at which they develop. >.> Avens having singletons gestate exremely quickly for their size -- like, a couple of months -- and the mothers get really weak while they're gestating (hence the Aven custom of males always being available to help pregnant females). I THINK (does this sound feasable?) more kits = longer development time, so it might be a biological tradeoff -- small number of kits for a shorter time of helplessness for the mother.

Mystic Dragon · Post by **Mystic Dragon** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:06 pm

more kits = more trouble for the female, so having them get weak during pregancy is pretty accurate. :D To put it one way, think of all the energy you get out of eating. Now put an itty bitty growing parasite in your system and watch it suck up all that energy. S'reason why mothers have to eat more, sleep more, and generally bring in as much energy as they can during pregnancy.

Rachael · Post by **Rachael** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:06 pm

Well, I'm not sure that is true - Then again, my first comparison that came to mind was between a hoofed singleton (horse) and wolf. Gestation for humans is cut short because the skull would never pass through with that brain if solid, so our babies are soft-skulled critters. Horses I thought gestated for around a yearish, but hey, I don't actually know. Wolves fall at roughly two months. So. I tend to think single offspring take longer... Gah, I don't know!