Stories vs. Stats

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:05 pm

:/ I've been noticing that everyone has priorities with stories and stats. namely, stories = teh roxxors and come first.
Because it's assumed that one will put more time and effort into a story, and that these reflect character personalities better.

But... there are exceptions. Like me. My stories tend to be short, reflective of roleplay posts, and generally aren't interesting because I don't have a concept of plot or good writing. I've been working on it for years and I can't get it right. They tend to be introspective, but the subjects they concern tend to be a very general sort. So basically, they don't really reveal much about my characters at all. Whatsmore, I don't spend much time on them, because it comes to a point where I can't think of anything else to realistically happen.

On my statssheets, by comparison, i spend a lot more time. Not the basic fields like height, eyes, name, status and rank, and i do tend to make history as brief as possible. But I spend tons of time on the personality section, which i consider the most important, trying to describe my chars with as much detail as I possibly can.

And of course this varies, because some characters have subtle sorts of personalities best described through stories, but as a general rule.. yeah. My characters and my stories are pretty equally bland, and I'm just one exception. Most likely, for the vast majority of people, stories do indicate more effort and time and fondness of the characters.

I suppose my point is, it's not that way for all of us. I only really mentioned it because it got slightly irking that everynoe everywhere has decided that stories = more effort, because that's not always the case. Stories are hard for me to write, because I'm not a good writer. I do push myself, I do write them, but i nthe long run, they will never be as good as my stat sheets are. And it also doesn't mean that they'll be frequently used.
I use ALL my characters in roleplay and whatnot, which is the only reason i submit them. Not all the time, but they're all valued and whatnot. But there are some that undeniably are more important-- and ironically, they're the least used.
Morphine, Desma and Tiegan, for example, are perhaps the most influential characters in mindspace. But they will rarely, if ever, have stories centered on them. Morphine, for example, has a single story, largely because it was nessicary for where i sent her. Jkat's dragons are worth it, of course, any dragon is worth it, which is why I write the stories in the first place, but that story was the most forced, akward thing i've ever written (and I am sorry for that, Jkat. X.x You should really've gotten better). And morphine is, perhaps, the most important character of them all. She is THE worldwalker, first person from mindspace to discover pern and the nexus, opening mindspace to those worlds. And the most she'll ever get is to be frequently mentioned with my other characters-- Tane, morphine's partner as a detective, MAz, the forensic psychiatrist who keeps an eye on her, Metaphor, who she searched and brought to the shimmer frenzy, all the other characters who heard about the hatchings through news she brought.

:/
And.. this really has no point. ^^; And i got backtracked.
Point-- story doesn't always mean the most effort.
please don't flame me. X.x ^^;

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:13 pm

I think people like stories because usually, with exceptions of course, a candidate has a stat sheet along with a story-bit explaining how they got to become candidates. Just a stat sheet alone, therefore, takes more effort. At my dragonry I say in the rules that I put stories above stats sheets but that is really more of a guideline ... if I recieve a stats sheet persona with a in depth detailed look into their personality and a detailed description of their history and how they came to the hatchery, then yes, they will get a higher ranking dragon than someone who writes a story like "Once upon a time there was a guy and he was searched to bond a dragon the end." But generally that's not the case, because most, not all, people seem to give better insight to a character through a story than a stats sheet can. How they act in certain situations and such. That's how I see it, anyway.

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:17 pm

XP that, and stories do tend to be a more interesting read then a bland personality-and-history description.
And yeah, i agree with you, for the most part. It's like that for most people. IT's just.. there are exceptions. And that's really my only point.
X.x sorry for the spam.

Cacopheny · Post by **Cacopheny** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:35 pm

... I always figured that most of it was that stories are considered more effort than stats pages XD Most people don't make horribly detailed stats pages, after all, and usually if they do, it's because they make horribly detailed everything, so stats pages are no exception.

The quality of story often doesn't matter so much as the fact that you put in the effort to write one. People put effort into their artwork, the running of a dragonry, and the portioning out of hatchlings, so they like to see effort put out in return in order to partake of the art, the dragonry, and the hatchlings.

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:43 pm

I know, but that's exactly my point. I put effort into my stories, but inevitably most of the effort goes into the personality section of the character's stat page. And any art I draw, but I rarely draw. And I do put a lot of effort in stats, and in stories too-- just more in the stats. I'm wierd like that.
:/ mah, I don't want to get a gold because i spent 30 mins on the stat sheet and 10 minutes typing out a two paragraph search story. I don't do that, but in general, I don't see why, yeah. I want a dragon to match my character, be that dragon gold or green. Hell, if we're talking pern, I'll take a green with a personality over an blank-slate gold anyday.
argh, i've gotten off topic again.

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:46 pm

>.> I like stats sheets. Some candidates just work better with stories and minimal/no stats, but the majority of my characters have fairly detailed stats sheets, and many have only stats, albeit very extensive ones.

So...um, yeah. I like stat sheets, love to get candidates that way. Usually less work on my part, in fact, not that I don't like reading stories. And it's pretty easy to get mid/higher-ranked dragons from me anyway.

Yeah...no other real point to this post...

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:47 pm

Pointless post pride! and ditto to that point.
XP Maybe we're lazy? -high fives-
Cept you do write well. >.> I read your stories~ Which is probably creepy.
-coffs-
-lurks around your webble-

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:52 pm

Thank you! I just don't write stories much anymore because I can't seem to motivate myself to write them. Don't have trouble with stat sheets, though, for some reason...

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:54 pm

Stats make more sense to me, but i'm odd. Too much roleplaying, definately.
I have problems with writer's block, myself. ._. it's evil. That, and I consider every potential part ofmy character's every day lives dead boring.
I still need to send you a male candidate. -puts on list to do- for another clutch. and some peeps for your castle~
-waddles off to find characters-

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:00 pm

I base all my newer characters (especially those going to pernese types and remaning in my Dragonhope weyr) on stat sheets from my random generator. Sometimes, the story leaps out to me. Sometimes it doesn't. But that's why I use the generator in the first place. I trust myself to select a character that's fun enough to start with, if it's got any chance of getting a story.

Time was, I wouldn't accept a pure stat-sheet character unless I knew the person sending it to me. For Dragonhope I take them as a rule, for the blues and greens that are the baseline effort necessary. I guess I'm old fashioned though, I really do like reading a good (short) story about a character. I don't even care much if they're not in it very much lol!

But at this point in time, with all the giveaways and everyone kind of 'feeding' on each other for candidates that we hardly have time to write, it's absolutely necessary I think, to accept them as 'what you're gonna get unless you demand otherwise'.

I also though, enjoy looking over what other people include in their stats pages. I think we can largely flesh out things if we know just enough.

As long as the personality is thought out and fits with the asked-for dragon, or the one they're given as a giftie, they're good for getting images on pages.

Plus gawd I love just adding a doll-image to a stat sheet because it really does help me get a grip on what they're all about.

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:04 pm

But at this point in time, with all the giveaways and everyone kind of 'feeding' on each other for candidates that we hardly have time to write, it's absolutely necessary I think, to accept them as 'what you're gonna get unless you demand otherwise'.

There are a lot of places in need of candidates. >.> It's making me go, i want to put a candidate there and ther eand there!
but yes.

The gens i've been finding are godlike, and i tend to operate under the same sort of way, though i use my characters more for RP then anything else, which means they'll always be private. ^^; notfun.

butthankyouforthoughts. And those doll images make me glower in envy. i can't find good dollmakers or else get the dolls to work for me, and there are no dolls for anthros! ;-; that makes me especially sad. There should be one, with a generic base whose marknigs and colours you can change, and clothes and such~
but i'm odd.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:11 pm

I think someone, Cy maybe, used to have this RIDICULOUSLY detailed stats template that had all sorts of things that might not be mentioned in a regular stats sheet or even a story. I used it for a couple of my characters.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:12 pm

That would rock. As well as a good fantasy type MALE doll maker. All the doll makers out there make guys who look like stuck up preps or totally stereotypically gay (no offense to gay guys, just sometimes i like straight guys too) and all of them set in modern times. I tried to make a male doll maker once but I'm just not that patient

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:13 pm

I have three like that, one of which even has this mindnumbingly dull survey attached. >.> now i'm simple-ish, but yes. It had such questions as, what would your character do if someone had a siezure when it was walking by, what would your character do if someone stole a relatively unimportant object, what does your character do in their spare time, what are your character's views on major political issues, what would your character do if rocks were falling on them, etc.
._. it was interesting the first two times, and then it got boring~
^^;

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:14 pm

That would rock. As well as a good fantasy type MALE doll maker. All the doll makers out there make guys who look like stuck up preps or totally stereotypically gay (no offense to gay guys, just sometimes i like straight guys too) and all of them set in modern times. I tried to make a male doll maker once but I'm just not that patient

YES! there should be. We should get someone who can make really good bases and clothing and such, as well as someone who can code java REALLY well. ;-; and then, our dollmakers would be pheasable!
java tries patience a lot. ;-;

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:19 pm

I've seen both good sheets and bad sheets, and good stories and bad stories, but in the end I just get a better feel of characters from stories, in reading what they do and say, than from stat sheets, which is why my agency requires stories--even short ones.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:38 pm

I have written terrible stories that were short and had no plot to stories that could easily become novels (Merlin & Taliesin; these two for exsample! They share a story...but the stupid thing is about 20 pages long in Word at normal settings...) Raayah, Synde, Cynte and a few others have recived longer, more indepth stories but some don't and I feel guilty. I've started putting up some more detailed stat pages, too, which, in my mine, helps if you need a quick glance at a character. Mostly if someone else wants to use them in a story they write. It's better for everyone to give them the same personality then have them be multiple personalites.

EDIT/ADDS: Oh, and don't forget Philippe's own personal novel, Skies of Fire; done for NaNoWriMo, but still...

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:36 pm

That would rock. As well as a good fantasy type MALE doll maker. All the doll makers out there make guys who look like stuck up preps or totally stereotypically gay (no offense to gay guys, just sometimes i like straight guys too) and all of them set in modern times. I tried to make a male doll maker once but I'm just not that patient
YES! there should be. We should get someone who can make really good bases and clothing and such, as well as someone who can code java REALLY well. ;-; and then, our dollmakers would be pheasable!
java tries patience a lot. ;-;

I've got bases and body parts but no code to put them together. I only make outlines because I suck at doing skin tone gradients on pixel art. I'll be putting them up properly sometime soon (once I finish a couple 'taur bodies) and they'll be open game. I used it for a few:

http://www.geocities.com/planet_twenty_ ... -color.gif midra with way more limbs attached than normal

this is the basic maker with some minor changes for my bunny people
http://www.geocities.com/usagi_shimai/usagimaker2.htm

Feel free to use whatever parts you'd like, just give me at http://www.droppin-the-fork.com credit.

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:39 pm

..omg.
shard. that's bloody awesome.
._______. with a few edits, those could be any anthro, too. Argh, i will be using your bunnypeoplemakers. and of course i shall credit you.
Permission to change around ears and muzzles a bit?

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:41 pm

Well if you need the other files I can just upload em. I've got a set of heads for like, cat, dog, rat, lizard, etc. and like I said I'm working on some 'taur bodies (feline right now, but I'll do horses and maybe an insectoid too). Some of the cat bodies might eventually be recognized when I run the 2nd generation of the furries from Planet Twenty.

Cheetah taurs rule. I'll be doing some wings too.

(edit: yes, any modifications you need to do, go right ahead)

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:41 pm

..Actually, you know. If anyone has a couple generic body-bases laying around, and can make a few various species-ed head bases, that would be workable. Or even just various ears, and a human base that you can move the ears onto, with an anthrosort face. :/ I could do some markings and such, though i can't do code.
itwouldbesoawesome~ urgh~

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:56 pm

Here's some base files for my dolling sites.

http://www.droppin-the-fork.com/kpdragons/dolling/

Some elves faces (can be changed to whatever anthro you'd need or whatever)
http://www.geocities.com/abode_elf_doll ... -faces.htm

and elf bodies (with skin tones, which is why I won't do them any more because the skin colors suck ass)
http://www.geocities.com/abode_elf_doll ... -bases.htm
If you use the elf bases please follow those instructions and use the abode link button and index page

DNS · Post by **DNS** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:04 pm

Shard.
I love you. Please let me have your babies. Cept not really.
O__O but that artbases are amazing. is amazing. Yes.
>.>
And there's even anthro heads. loveloveLOVE.
May I use the body and anthro-head bases? I could colour a number of them andmake them available~ though i wouldn't be able to do much in the way of hair and clothes.
;-;lovelove. -clingstoshardwithtehhappies

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:17 pm

Yeah, use whatever you like!

Be warned, I think that the 'male-full' image *may* be corrupted. Every time I use it as a base instead of the base without the extra arms on it, something weird happens to psp and it shuts down. It might just have been some weird error, but just in case, there're two arm files separate - found on the usagi shimai page I think.

Have fun with em!

I've got 3 other pictures but actually only one of them is online still, and I think it's probably been removed from y-gallery because it's aaaanthro and Spubba doesn't liiiike anthro stuff, so they're banning it (and I don't care, because frag em, I already left but that image was a gift to someone there). The others... ah, no, one usagi was used and the other isn't up yet because he's getting one of the ganeen/veretus babies I made. (and he's an 18+ page).

http://www.geocities.com/carramba_high/ ... /ghan1.htm taufon is the one that's up.

caesiusdraco · Post by **caesiusdraco** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:15 pm

I like stories better because I'm a complusive writer. I hate making stat pages with a bloody fury, because I just feel like I illustrate everything better in story form. Plus, I have more fun that way.

I don't necessarily think that stories require more effort, and I appreciate a three-paragraph story that is very illustrative of dominant personality traits and well-written than a mediocre novella. I think you can put just as much work into a complex, well thought out stat page with a nice layout. I can appreciate both, as long as I can get a personality out of it. XD

Personally, I get kind of annoyed when people don't read my stories, at least the people who I'm sending them to to bond. Like when I broke down Almenet & Crew's 30+ page novel into text documents to make sure it would get read. If I'm going to put that much effort into something, I'd like to make sure I at least get feedback (damnit!).

This used to be a really good doll site before it was hacked. I hope they can fix it someday...

http://www.eqpixelarmy.com/dollmachine/

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:39 pm

Ohh, dear. The old stories vs. stat sheets. X3

I aknowledge the need for, and use for, both methods of candidates. At the Nidus, I'm pretty lenient about stat sheets, but at Sanctuary I demand stories.

This is for two reasons.

One, I don't need to 'fill up clutches'! I can wait for people to send in stories in their own time. It's no-pressure on them and on me, unlike deadlined clutches where writing stories can be nerve-wracking and completely unfun.

The second is purely selfish. the thrill of giving out dragons, for me, (other than seeing their genes breed their way into the Nexus at large >D) is seeing my dragons used. If I see that someone has written a story for the charrie they're sending it, it feels to me like they're more likely to continue that story after their bonding, and that is something I lovelovelove to see. My favourite part of owning an agency is reading the stories that people write for their dragons. ^^

I do understand with the writing-stories-is-like-pulling-teeth point of view. I'm like that too. Takes me six months, usually, to churn out a story I genuinely like. V.v

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:28 pm

Well, here is my two cents - personal I like to write stat sheets better because I like making characters. I have trouble coming up with stories most of the time, but I can't seem to stop the flow of character ideas. If I ever get around to doing clutches I'll probably do them sorta BWR-style with stat-sheets and stories. ^^ I do love reading good stories.

Shiolar · Post by **Shiolar** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:26 am

I like both, really. Kinda. I prefer writing stories myself, but there's getting to be so many clutches out there that I think I'll have to start doing some stat sheets too.

From the point of view of giving out dragons from Mirus, I do prefer stories, because of the effort thing, and because it gives a clearer idea of who the character is. But with that said, it's only a guideline. If I receive a stats sheet with a really well defined character on it, then the dragon will reflect that.

Post by **Dray** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:26 am

I feel the same way, DNS. XD Though my stats pages are usually /also/ as crappy as my stories, so I don't really have a saving grace.

I like demanding stories from other people simply because if I order a top-line like that, it's more likely that I won't get minimum-effort from people. It doesn't mean that I don't care for stats pages (>.> I'll take a decent stats page any day!), it's just been my experience that requiring a story in order to get a 'high ranker' really sets apart two applications--like JKat mentioned, I feel like someone who's written a story is more likely to do something with their dragon after it's grown to adulthood then if they were just to put it on a stats page and (maybe) include some info for the dragon as well.

Whee my brain has melted from lack of sleepies. XD *boots self off of the computer* I need sleep if I'm gonna spend my last day off doing anything useful! D: