Nexus Website Proposal - Final In Progress

[Yakima]

EDIT

Final website is in progress

Since we obviously didn't get to it in class...grrr...im starting the final and will be handing the files over to Star within the week, im sure. Please visit: http://www.magecircle.com/nexus/ and give your opinions and point anything out that you see as a flaw in the design. Star will be working on the coding peice by peice and whatnot but I would like peoples input to the layout and the readability/navigation.

Thanks!

[Dray]

Right now the forum is hosted through StarFyre's server, but the URL was bought and is being maintained by me, so it's sort of a franken/joint project already!

I'd been thinking of something like this a while ago, and the main thing that I was interested in seeing was a nice, concise front page that contains a simple (one paragraph or less) writeup of what the Nexus is here to do, maybe with some example images similar to JKat's Nidus page where new ones randomly pop up.

Having the database as a link from that would be pretty cool, but would ultimately be really overwhelming for newbies. As far as hierarchy goes, I'd say that having a easy to understand front page would be highest on the list. Having a page linking from this describing the Nexus as 'Pern' and 'Original' with a list of active databases would be the second priority, I think. Some kind of Hall of Wyrms would be fun, listing (and linking, if possible) those who have been around for a while!

[Yakima]

Well, the database was something not really for newbies but for the vetrens who want to track down dragon pedigrees. No one would have to code anything into the database. It would all be run with php and stuff where you send in a form of information and it gets posted. So if you want to add an agency, you fill out a form and it's listed so people can search for it. *shrugs* Maybe I'll just make a mock up when I get time to show you want i mean. I'm still confused on why I would need to transfer the data here (I mean, didn't you two JUST do that...urg), but It might be because the usernames and passwords of members would automatically be added to the front page site or something. I dunno. I mean if you guys just want something that simple JKat already has it. I was just offering because I know there was talk about that database for finding dragons and pedigress/offsipring. *shrugs* Or I could just make that instead. It was a thought but wouldn't be able to happen till next fall anyway.

I think, though, that after this class I'm going to try to turn at least one of my sites into a database driven site (at least for my characters).

[weyrwomanrhiannon]

I know the kind of thing you're talking about Yakima as far as the database goes. I could link an example if necessary. It's helpful and tricky to maintain. If someone makes a mistake and submits the form too early then an admin has to be contacted to go in and fix it. I've seen that happen a lot. Not to mention (though we wouldn't have this problem here I think) if there's a change of ownership that the profile has to be changed. I agree with Dray that a simple front page explaining what the Nexus is and who is involved here with the appropriate links would be priority.

[Yakima]

Like i said, it was a thought. *shrugs*

[Linque]

My theory is we might be able to draw more people in, "new blood", if we had an official site that holds information and whatnot about us, our sites.

As a mostly "new blood" person, I can offer my very humble opinion that I think this sounds like a great idea. I've been lurking about for the past few years and I can definitely see that there are a whole lot of wonderful ideas and fantastic people in this community, but I'm totally lost as to how to approach anything that isn't Pern. I'd love to start writing up Candidates for people other than Yakima but I'm sort of intimidated by not having easy access to basic descriptions of everyone else's 'verses in order to get an idea of what else I might like to explore. Everyone just seems so familiar with everyone else and their worlds that for me, at least, it's kinda intimidating to ask in order to familiarize myself with everything else that's going on. I think having it all in one place would be extremely helpful and help sort of open the community up a bit more for newcomers. Not that anyone has been at all UNwelcoming, I just...um...am gonna stop rambling now and go back to hiding in my corner. ^.^'

[Yakima]

*points to Aneris Wery* Im not the only Pern person around. Just a 10-year addict. hehee

But yeah, that was kinda my point. I know JKat has a page set up like this already but its not here, on this domain and I don't know where it is. It would take alot of time to get set up but my teacher seemed willing to help where he could (we're designers, not back-end coders). I don't know everything about how it works but so far the sections I wanted to include was the Records Database (which I did start a few years ago...remember this: http://www.wolf-mage.com/archives/test.php? ), Members and Agencies/Worlds (which would probably be linked to gether but could be searched (hopefully) independently, A species index where we could provide the information about our species (again, linked to the members profiles), the forum and an introduction page. We would still host all clutches and events on our own sites, the forum would still be here and used to post updates, but we do have A LOT of species, worlds, places and ideas that get tossed around. Even i get lost in the forums.

That, and I can only try to do this. It's a lot of backend work that I know nothing about but I seriously think that newcomers can get very overwhelemed when they look at the forum and don't know where to start. I know I've drifed away from here due to many reasons and others have to. We're only a small handful of people and back in the day I remember getting poor M'len into a clutch at Talor Cliff felt like a merical because her clutches would fill in a day. Now it takes weeks, months...years...for some clutches to hatch. I'm not saying this will solve the problems but people these days are lazy and having a front page that says, 'hi, welcome and lets begin a tour of what we're about...blah blah blah..."...I dunno, sounds easier to digest then a forum with years worth of posts.

[StarFyre]

Woah, teach me to pay attention more often... Alright, lets see..

1) I believe the idea is both tenable and worthwhile.

2) Nexusdragons.com has unlimited databases to play with, and I have the ability to give you access to the site to upload/futz with pages. Just remember to not edit the forum pages.

3) Of course I'll help with backend and any php you might require. What you've spoken about so far is actually rather simple to set up. Also, I know why your teacher was saying to move the forums again - the theory being you move the forums to your own webspace so that you have access to the memberlist of the forum (which is worked around by me giving you access to the nexusdragons server) from which you can then link the update pages in. Therefore, if, say, Dray wants to add a species or adoption site, she'd type in the information, sign in using her forum name/pass combination, and the data would be saved and linked to her account. It also has the benefit of everything being in one place. ((As a side note, doing this by keeping everything in place adds realism to the 'client' part of your task. As a designer, you will almost always be working on someone else's server for the finished product.))

4) Also, as for the errors in submissions - that's what error checking is about, and that's why it's done both client-side with javascript and server-side with php. Open forms like that make many a programmer leery, because of the potential they have to utterly trash a database.


5) I'm... not entirely sure this would take as long as you think it will. Right now, running through a list of everything you've suggested, I'm estimating it would take me at most a week to get the backend and most of the php up and running. I'd also probably have the lists of members, agencies, and clutches built from the database every night using a script, the genealogy actively built with a php page linked off of a search function... BUT, that's me with about 7 years of coding behind me. If you want to do this for your class, this becomes your project and while I'll do backend/php work and I'll suggest solutions and ways of doing things, the ultimate call will be yours.

[Yakima]

You made my day (well, night but it was too late to reply last night heh) A few things though.

Therefore, if, say, Dray wants to add a species or adoption site, she'd type in the information, sign in using her forum name/pass combination, and the data would be saved and linked to her account. It also has the benefit of everything being in one place. ((As a side note, doing this by keeping everything in place adds realism to the 'client' part of your task. As a designer, you will almost always be working on someone else's server for the finished product.))

I figured that was what it meant which would make it easier for all of us because we don't have to sign up for a whole new thing and we would (im assuming) already be in the members list because we're all already members here.

I'm... not entirely sure this would take as long as you think it will. Right now, running through a list of everything you've suggested, I'm estimating it would take me at most a week to get the backend and most of the php up and running. I'd also probably have the lists of members, agencies, and clutches built from the database every night using a script, the genealogy actively built with a php page linked off of a search function... BUT, that's me with about 7 years of coding behind me. If you want to do this for your class, this becomes your project and while I'll do backend/php work and I'll suggest solutions and ways of doing things, the ultimate call will be yours.

I have 3 weeks summer vaction before this class actually starts (the idea poped into my head early...) and then he said we don't get into the part where we build stuff like this until later, halfway through. Which gives everyone here time to give me (and you) input on stuff. Im going to have to a creative breif and everything, I'm sure.

That being said, this is where I ask questions, I guess. I know a lot of you are familuar with my layouts and have probably seen my new ones but Im going to treat you guys like my clients and you get to tell me what to make and, on Star's end, if there are anymore features you would like added. I'll probably start working on this early (if anything I'll have a headstart when the actuall assignment hits in a month or two). I'm going to throw out some questions for you all to give your opinion on. We have plenty of time to come to agreements.

1. Colors and 'feel': Feel free to do a google search on website layouts and pick out some you like, or like parts of. Also, if their is a design you like let me know. For colors, kuler.adobe.com is really, really fun to play with. (give me the base color hex code and what sceme you used (complementary, analogous, ect) and I can find it again.)

2. Images: One idea rolling around in my head is to feature some of our artwork and dragons up their or to have us draw our own. Yes, I could use my own dragons but this is a community of a bunch of talented people so I don't want to single us. Also, if we go with a illustrated look, you can give me permission to render your art in illustrator (or do it yourself). If there are images you want to see used, or a style, please let me know (eggs and cracked eggs anyone? I mean, we have them in our forums. lol)

3. Features: I already have plans for the Members profiles, Agency Profiles, Records Database, and Information (for all species we have running around). [was also thinking, if possible, perhaps a calander for people to post events or a bullentin board to announce a clutch, hatching, whatever... ) Let me know and we'll see if Star can do it. [ooo...maybe we can have a chat intergrated into it. lol or at least front page link to it. I need to bookmark that again...)

That's it for now. I know I have a month or two before I technically have to start it but we can brainstorm now.

And for those of you who don't think it's a good idea, i've brought it up with several non-nexus people and having a central hub would probably be easier than spending hours finding stuff on the forums. Forums are messy and if you want to bring in new people, which I've known we've been trying to do for years, it might be easier for them to figure out what's going on. I promise. I know it will. Not to mention, easier for us all to find dragons in past records.

Ok, gotta go back to work. I'll try to lurk in Chat if you guys need me.

[StarFyre]

I figured that was what it meant which would make it easier for all of us because we don't have to sign up for a whole new thing and we would (im assuming) already be in the members list because we're all already members here.

Yep. It keeps us from having to remember a different name/pass or from having to register a second time. This is the part that I figure will take me the longest to figure out how to do, as I've never dealt with logins before. It shouldn't take me too long, though, since phpBB is well documented, and I'm sure there will be information out there on how to do it.

I have 3 weeks summer vaction before this class actually starts (the idea poped into my head early...) and then he said we don't get into the part where we build stuff like this until later, halfway through. Which gives everyone here time to give me (and you) input on stuff. Im going to have to a creative breif and everything, I'm sure.

Oh, right. How boring, having to follow strict guidelines =P No worries, though. As you've said, it'll give us time to come to agreements and give me time to stab the backend into shape.

So!

1) Colors and feel: A fixed sidebar or topbar for a menu is something I think would be useful. Other than that, I have no opinion on the layout. Colors, hmm... ... yeah, nothing's jumping out at me at the moment.

2) Images: Eggs and cracked eggs are a nice link in to the forum. Uhm... actually, I think they could be used as bullet points for, say, the list of clutches? Solid white for clutches over a week old that aren't about to hatch, solid gold for new clutches not about to hatch. Cracked white for clutches over a week old that are about to hatch, cracked gold for new clutches about to hatch? That could be handled by a combination of the database and a script to build that page.

One idea rolling around in my head is to feature some of our artwork and dragons up their or to have us draw our own. Yes, I could use my own dragons but this is a community of a bunch of talented people so I don't want to single us. Also, if we go with a illustrated look, you can give me permission to render your art in illustrator (or do it yourself).

How would you feature the artwork? A rolling lightbox sort of thing, or photomanip/request a 'group shot' image to be used as a background image? Something I haven't thought of? Also, I think we should have an example of every species in the species-page, so that people have not only a written but a visual reference to go off of.

3) Features: I'm pretty sure we can integrate the chat. If not the chat that Xalia has up already, then one installed directly on this server. Hmm... as for the current events/calendar, we could have it built automatically based on things input into the database, with events written in short hand (Ex: "Asana Clutch Open") with the words being a link to the page with more detailed information.

Chat link is: http://www.dragonbackdesign.com/chat.php

[StarFyre]

Double post for teh win.

Here is a googledoc spreadsheet that shows the type of information we're considering collecting for the database of dragons, agencies, and whatnot. Take a gander and see if you have any questions/comments/suggestions. If you edit the doc, please be kind enough to highlight what you've edited so I can see it =P

[Yakima]

And, while we're at it...Trying to freshen up the logo. I know there are some that are very attached to this but it will look horribly bland on any layout I put with it. Sooo...i did a quick sketch of something that could be rendered in Illustrator, was simular but looked updated. This is the result!

Why, you may ask, is he holding a pencil? *points to our slogan* I want the design and/or logo to reflect that so he/she is holding a pencil with a big fat erase on the end.

One thing I can do is, because the Nexus is more than just dragons now, do several varations of the logo with other specie types (gryphon, wolf, ect). Then, on the website, there is a code that I can use to randomly change the image on reload or when you visit a new page. (JKat has the same thing).

Just a suggestion.

[Yakima]

Im gonna bump this again...for several reasons.

One, I need input. I've been playing with a design but I really need/want your ideas. You guys are my 'clients' and this site idea isn't just for me. I have to make something like this anyway and what is done with it afterward is up to you. Star and I just need your opinions. You're not loosing the forum; the forum is still here and fully functional. You'll just have more options and be able to contribute in a different way. I would show you the nifty layout I've been playing with but I really want your opinions on a design first. Fun, modern, sketchy, dark, light, colroful...We have some very talented artists here and I don't think i'm up to drawing new dragons for this when I would rather this be a group effort and you all chip in peices and tidbits. I really need you're opinions on the logo. I know you expressed not wanting it changed but I did that years ago and I'ts time for a face lift. *points to above cuteness* If you all like that, do you have a preferance for colors (because there will be a full color version done in Illustrator.)

We have months to decide and figure things out but I think Star will agree with me that there is a lot to be done and decided. Mostly, what information you want displayed where. She's shown you the database idea but we also have what information will be displayed for members, agencies, species...stuff like that. We have a lot of stuff to be placed for the world to see and I hate seeing it hidden burried under a ton of posts or lost in cyberspace (aka geocities).

I lurk in Chat. A lot. If you want to see a prototype for the front page, let me know and I'll show you there.

[Shard]

As far as I'm concerned I like the site the way it is, but as long as I have easy, QUICK access to the forum and don't have to go through hoops to reach it or log in, I'm good to go.

Personally I like our logo, too much detail is not really warranted - that said, a 'featured art' corner or banner that changes with each load is a cool idea to show off our stuff.

I don't like over-done sites. I like simple, easily opened and non-flashy locations. I'm not personally fond of the doodads and dropdowns and fancy bits, but I'm okay with frames again so long as the forums aren't part of something that is distracting and on-screen. (when I'm on a forum, I don't want it looking like Facebook, or an inset to a bigger site. I'm on the forum, to be there.)

[Yakima]

The logo can have several versions, Shard. I wanted to keep the original idea we had but I added something to tie in the slogan (the pencil). I can make a simpler one, too, anouther black-white one if you wish. I guess I've just learned more about logos and stuff and I have the right software I just wanted to try to make it better (I've been told by my teacher and fellow students a new logo would be a good idea.) Let me play, then decide. I just like incorporating the pencil and "Erasing the Lines..." part of our slogan into a logo.

And this is what I was playing with: http://www.wolf-mage.com/nexus/ . There will be no dropdowns (as I hate them and our site is simple enough where we don't need them...and I know StarFyre feels the same. ). And I no longer use frames (as this will be for a school project, and the teacher will probably murder me...or fail me. ) I'll take input and options but the only 'fancy' stuff I'll be using is anything that comes with Dreamweaver (Spry Accordion, Tabbed and Collapsible Panels, all which are used at Falas. And there I only used them to hide information that I figured people might not care about, like Wing Information, Clutch Pedigrees or Genetic Codes, but they can look if they want. The layout I'm using for my characters use a tabbed panel, actually. Everything is on one page.) Though, I doubt I'll need to use much of that. What we decide to put up would be needed and needed to be seen right away. *shrugs* [If you are against the Spry Panels let me know...If you like the new Falas Site i've been working on and the character pages and don't mind that, then I think I'm 'safe' to use em, right? heehe]

Maybe I'll start figuring each section and what information to use. Does anyone use Google Docs? If so, I'll stick it up there and if you want to edit it let me know so I can add you. I think we can group things or something in a folder so that Star's Database stuff will there, too.

I don't like complicated. I think this only seems complicated but once it's done it will be easy and easier for new people. It's the new people I want to focus on. If I had fresh blood to throw dragons at, I might come back more but I actually got tired of giving dragons to the same people all the time, and lots of them. I felt like i was overloading an overloaded situation, or something. But If anything, humor me and lets pretend. If anything, I'll kidnap Star to help me turn Falas Weyr into a database driven site so I can make updates faster...mwahahaa! *coughs and looks innocent*

[Yakima]

Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Af ... rcAjc/edit

Folder for all NExus stuff (i don't think i can add stars database file, but she can I'm sure. Also open to all who have link...)
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0K2e ... Y5Qms/edit

You can all edit without signing in.

[StarFyre]

Huh. I was doubtful about the blue/orange colorscheme, but I rather like it in application. (I really need to stop grumping about combining blue/orange *grins in Dray's direction*) The image-slider should be on a slower cycle time, but that's easy enough. I rather like the way this layout looks.

Also, Shard: The forum won't actually move location. You can still just type in nexusdragons.com/forum and show up right here. No need to even go through or deal with the base-site if you don't want to.

The stuff on the database has been added to the googledoc folder.

[Shard]

My one critique on the sample page there is that it's got SO much wasted space on the left and right. I have a very wide monitor, but it's more typical to have 16:9 or :10 monitors these days, rather than the old 4:3 setup where centering is an issue.

[Yakima]

there might be a way to fix it, shard...i'll have to ask at school later but I can work on that. I know starfyre said the same thing about my falas page once.

[StarFyre]

I've actually only got an inch to an inch and a half of space on either side. *shrugs* Small screen in my part. Something like that can be taken care of by making the main box fluid.

Yakima: It's your one weakness in design, you lack the ability to make a fluid design that resizes based on the current screen. In case you lose the link I gave you in the chat, here it is again: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/resp ... eb-design/

[Yakima]

...well, my website is down again and I'm -$80 in my account so it will have to wait till next week to be reactivated. Sorry guys. I'll get it back up as soon as I can.

[StarFyre]

Want ftp access to nexusdragons?

[Yakima]

If you want. I feel bad for loosing access to mine...AGAIN...but this is what happens when I forget about automantic bills that need to go through and what not...urg. *glares at bank* I think my bank account has holes in it...or monsters that eat money...I swear!

[StarFyre]

There should be an IM in your box with info on ftp access. Enjoy!

[Yakima]

*bows* I will post new link soon

EDIT: http://www.nexusdragons.com/testing/index.html and http://www.nexusdragons.com/testing/index2.html (Star likes the second one better but it's longer [1200px wide] so I don't know how well it will work for the rest of you. I have a 15inch MacBook Pro with 1680x1050 resolution and it looks ok to me. I don't want to make the main conent any smaller but I like the blue boxes on the side. It balances better, me thinks.

Also, I took of the "STICKIE" part of the title since someone (assuming it was Star , ty) made it an offical stickie.

EDIT BY STAR: Corrected the links =P Silly Yakima

[eccentricbirdie]

Personally, I think it sounds like an awesome idea.. I know I don't contribute much, or ever really, but I do plan on doing that more. Once that charger comes in the mail. >>

Also, that second link doesn't work? Not sure if I'm just late to the party or what but yeah. I think it would be nice to bring some new people in. :3

[Shard]

I like the 2nd one slightly better. Too much busy stuff in the center makes Shard twitchy.

[Dray]

Some thoughts as I breeze through -- I love what you guys have been thinking out so far!

1) For the logo, why not a challenge to Nexus-goers to use that egg symbol? Create the basic oval shape, request everyone who wants to to draw a dragon of their choice in the middle similar to how it looks on the forum?

This way, we get to keep up the idea of diversity of what's going on here and give newcomers an idea of the variety of dragons that are on hand... and it stays in line with your idea of having some variety going on. :3

2) As for what Linque was saying, I would love to have a section wherein we can add information about our worlds, (or at least the areas around the adoption centers!) I'd love if they could be formatted like this:

<Image of a world/system/map/overview of some kind; optional, that the agency owner can upload at his or her whim>

Basic Information
(Including here an overview of the world (or the area around the agency, whatever the owner feels is relevant), the dragons and the people.)

(Some very clear instructions on how people from other parts of the Nexus are capable of arriving here; is it very difficult? Is it mainly through random portal hops? Does it require magic, or is it sci-fi based? How long would it take? Are there some worlds/agencies that are more near by than others? Are there OOC requirements -- the writer should talk with the owner about where their character would wind up when they hop over? Basically, any info for a writer on how their off-world character might get there.)

Dragon Info

<An image or set of images that best displays what this area of the world has to offer without breaking the page width. X3)
(Including how dragons interact with others -- do they bond? Is sponsoring a thing? Are they predatory or cooperative? What's their life cycle? What special notes about abilities or magic are pertinent?)

(Additionally, either a point-by-point break down of the average bonding/hatching ceremony, or some OOC information on how the owner plans on giving the dragon images away. Something that writers can latch on to in order to understand how bonding would work and what adopting one of these dragons would mean in terms of how their stories progress.)

(Possibly a 'dragons of note of this species' with links to their pages.)

Local Citizen Info

<An image here of the critters who ride/work with dragons, totally up to the owner to put up, not necessary but available if wanted.>

(Here, a breakdown of the sapient species that are worth notice -- specifically, any that are worth notice for potential writers to use, rather than off-world characters. What are these species like? How do they treat the dragons of the agency? Is it a mixed population of bonded and non-bonded, or do the dragons or dragon/rider pairs keep themselves separate? Are there many different species of note, or just one, or two? I'm thinking that including any info on the secret species tucked away on an isle far yonder isn't really necessary for this part, as all of this information would be aimed at new writers, to help them get an idea for what kinds of characters they could create if they wanted to go local.)

(Possibly here, a 'characters of note of this species' section with links to their pages.)

Out of Character Info

(Any information that the owner wants to convey to writers about the world that doesn't fit above: adoption dates/deadlines, abandonment consequences, breeding restrictions, etc.)

3) Colours: I'd imagine something fairly neutral, just to compliment the forum right now? I like blue and orange in general but that particular saturation feels a bit harsh on the eyes!

4) Header looks good with the sample page... will we be able to have a slider page specific to the owners... like, the specific kinds of dragons that we have drawn? X3

[Yakima]

1. We can do that. I would like to pick out one "offical" logo tho. I can set up the site to have random images on the top on each refresh/load but I would like one offical one, too. I have no problem opening that up to people. (I'm totally making a Pernese one then! mwahahaa!) We actually do need art submissions for a few things. We're going to try to put little flits (can't forget our flits!), in the design. This was an original idea and we're going to see how it looks. Starfyre started drawing those. But we need error page images! So far we have the following ideas:
1) 404: “Opps, looks like the flits knocked this page off the shelf. We’ll get back to you after we clean it up.” [picture of flits in the middle of a mess]
2) 504 (server error): “Err, sorry. The flits hit the switch.” [picture of a flit with a chewed cable in its mouth.]
If anyone wants to take those on, please let me know. I plan to place them on a white background with text and colors simular to the main site. I don't know if there are any other errors but we can add more.

2.*facepalm* dur...worlds. of course. heh. Yeah, I'll add that to the menu and my list of pages to create. I'll refer back to all that later when i get to the page design.

3. Colors: StarFyre and I kept going to http://kuler.adobe.com trying to find a good color combo. I've kinda given up. I want it light (white background), bright but not too childish, and whatnot. Feel free to toss me ideas. I kept going back to orange/blue but kept failing at keeping whatever it is about this color scheme that worked.

4. Um, we might. I /might/ be able to do a light box type thing if you want to do that. Of course, some of this StarFyre has to confirm. I don't know the limits here but I have a feeling she could find a way. I can easily design it...making it a working, useable interface...yeah...I'm still clueless. I don't start learning how to put all this stuff together for a month or two. But that just gives us time to plot. hehee I'm still going to make my sites database-driven...maybe I'll be able to update em easier. And get candidates paged and dragons paged and whatnot. hehee

Feel free to pop into chat, guys. Starfyre and I plot there. Beware of falling codes and ideas.

ALso, i have updated the front page of the temp site with links to the other pages I'm working on. I currently only have the profile page (what the public sees) done.

[Yakima]

Been playing with a few color schemes. If you find one you want me to try, post the link.

http://photobucket.com/thenexus (<- they're posted here )