Alair WolfKeep - A Wingless Wolf :P

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:14 pm

lol I'm so slaughtering those genes.

You'll see.

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:30 pm

Perhaps the R/r dictates the solidness of the color, like rr is solid, Rr allows for other colors to show through, and RR allows for more coloration differants, like in Japepp (the one above Nijeyy). Rr may be an exsample of Rr. Aria could be rr.

This is exactly what I was saying in that big mundo post from this morning. O_o

Maybe the confusion is coming from you having 'grey' listed as a solid coat colour in the pages that you posted? Is grey a solid coat colour? Or 'greyed-brown'? Or are those actually 'common grey' as in the 'mixes of different colours to make a greyish or brownish hue'?

Also, Shard, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I don't think the post that I spewed is a very polished example... needs moar work!

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:37 pm

Heh, yeah, you can have a gray wolf who is gray-gray with only white and black hairs. The colors I have listed can all occure as solid colors, common gray is where those colors get mixed around. At least that's what I understand when I look at a real-life wolf picture. No wolf could ever have the same coat coloration. Even, in my mind, a black wolf will have differances. A black wolf with a "common gray pattern" would still be black, he/she would just have darker fur on top and lighter fur on the underbelly and legs but not very drastic. I rarley ever color a wolf solid-solid. Like the white ones always get some other colors mixed in. *nods*

XD Sorry dray, I did understand what you meant, I was just trying to expand on it since you didn't want every wolf comming out common gray from two common gray parents. *nods* XD

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:39 pm

Oh! Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, the deal with 'all common grey from common grey parents' was a problem with the RR gene, not the colours. If your parents are both common grey (both have 'RR' genes) then the puppies will all have RR genes. They might be different mixes of colours though, since there would potentially be 8 different colours to choose from!

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:49 pm

Bingo! XD

Perhaps throw in something for lighter or darker too (like the H/h I use for the Pernese).

For the dragons, HH and Hh remain a normal shade while hh is lighter or darker (I did that to avoid have an HH x HH pairing and haveing all the offspring dark. >.<) h1 was the gene that creates the pale or (very) dark colors (like pale gold or dark gold). You can only get the pale/dark colors if you had h1h1.

This could always be changed for the wolves if you want a more defined light/dark instead of just randomizing it.

Hmmm...colors with powers should be on the Elruvian info page, dray, unless you need a more defined list...look at the very bottom. XD

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:50 pm

ALSO...just to annoy people...I modified that chart of sizes to correlate better with my previous chart so that people don't have super huge wolves next to this new chart.

Alskyrian: males - 2'8" to 3'2"; females - 2'6" to 3' (longer legs make them taller)
Reririan: males - 2'4" to 2'10"; females - 2'2" to 2;88" (still the smallest species of winged wolf but with larger wings)
Pernese: males - 2'6" to 3'; females - 2'4" to 2'10" (ranges between the Reririan and Alskyrian; has larger wings then the Alskyrian and a bit shorter legs)
Elruvian: males - 2'10 to 3'4"; females - 2'8" to 3'2" (the largest breed but delicate and slender then the other broader wolves)
Eastern Canese: males - 2'8" to '3'2"; females: 2'6" to 3' (the second largest breed but more like the Reririan or Pernese in build and stature)
Western Canese: males - 3' to 3'6"; females - 2'10 to 3'4" (okay, they're actually the biggest but most of there traits get bred out, which is almost a good thing on Cani, but in the Nexus that's a bad thing, eh? XD)

Okay...no more changing. I think this satisifies the old sizes and the "modified" ones I had just developed. Makes more sense, too, me thinks. *nods*

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:50 pm

My current pair are Rerir and they're listed at 3' tall... I can change their cubs to reflect this height change if you want?

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:07 pm

What are some patterns for wolves already out there (not common grey)?

Also, are you going to add those heights to the pages, Yakima? XD I will more easily be able to check your stats info pages than this thread, once it picks up and scrolling through the thread pages becomes a hassle!

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:14 pm

I will, Dray. Trying to add the Opening Frenzy charts/records to my list right now. >.<Maybe>.< Owi...Well, that might be easy...sorta...

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:26 pm

Here's try number 2 for various colours and mixes and stuff. :D Feel free to pick it apart or ignore it or whatever. I moved 'greyed brown' into a different category from 'solid colour', added white somewhere more prominently to the different basic colour genes, and continued to ignore Elruvian colours because I have no idea what Elruvian colours are dominant to what.

Colour Genes:
Each wolf has two pairs. The first set's most dominant gene determines the base coat. The most dominant gene of the second pair determines the secondary colour that might dust the wolf's coat. The two more recessive colours may also dust the wolf's coat if the wolf also displays 'common grey'.

Alskyrian Colour Genes:
Ca1 - Grey
Ca2 - Brown
Ca3 - Black
Ca4 - Tan
Ca5 - White
Ca6 - Red
Ca7 - Gold
Ca8 - Silver

Pernese Colour Genes:
Cp1 - Grey
Cp2 - Brown
Cp3 - Black
Cp4 - Tan
Cp5 - White
Cp6 - Red
Cp7 - Gold
Cp8 - Silver

Reririan Colour Genes:
Cr1 - Grey
Cr2 - Brown
Cr3 - Black
Cr4 - Tan
Cr5 - White
Cr6 - Red
Cr7 - Gold
Cr8 - Silver

Elruvian Colour Genes:
(Need more info on what magics are more dominant; coat colour directly linked to magic) -- not needed, don't have any of these.

Canese Colour Genes:
Cca# - the 'a' causes more saturation to whatever colour is shown as well as giving multiple tones of dark and light. This only occurs when the Cca# shows up in the first pair of colours, not in the secondary pair.
Ccd# - the 'd' causes whatever colour is shown to be darkened greatly and to show multiple tones of light and dark across the body. This only occurs when the Ccd# gene is in the first pair of colours, not the secondary pair.
Cca1 - Grey
Cca2 - Brown
Cca3 - Black
Cca4 - Tan
Cca5 - White
Cca6 - Red
Cca7 - Gold
Cca8 - Silver

Ccd1 - Grey
Ccd2 - Brown
Ccd3 - Black
Ccd4 - Tan
Ccd5 - White
Ccd6 - Red
Ccd7 - Gold
Ccd8 - Silver

'Common Grey'
GG - Full common grey. Uses all four colours. Affects hue of wolf (base coat is paler than normal, other colours may be darker or lighter than normal.)
Gg - Partial common grey. Uses the first pair's dominant colour as a base with the second pair's dominant colour sprinkled across the forehead, back, shoulders/thighs and wings. Amount of secondary colour can vary greatly. (base coat may be slightly lighter than normal).
gg - Solid colour. Most dominant colour appears only.

'Roan'
An even mixture of the wolf's first pair of genes. Ignores the second pair of gene colours entirely.
RR - Not roan, no recessives held.
Rr - Not roan, recessive is held.
rr - Roan shows.

All possible roan colours (barring Elruvian colours):
Grey: (Grey/Grey, Grey/Black, Grey/White, Black/White)
Ash Brown: Grey/Tan, Grey/Brown
Slate Rose: Grey/Red
Antique Gold: Grey/Gold, Black/Gold
Antique Silver: Grey/Silver, Black/Silver
Chocolate: Brown/Black
Tope: Brown/Tan, Brown/White, Black/Tan
Russet: Brown/Red, Black/Red
Bronze: Brown/Gold, Brown/Silver
Cream: Tan/White
Rose: Tan/Red, White/Red, Red/Silver
Amber: Tan/Gold, White/Gold, Tan/Silver
Silver: White/Silver
Copper: Red/Gold
White Gold: Gold/Silver

Patterns:
Largely not an issue. If a wolf code doesn't display a pattern pair, assume that it has the dominant 'Po', or else some mix of Po and Px. If two pattern genes are seen together, both may manifest on the wolf or interact in strange ways.

Po - No pattern. If paired with a pattern gene, the pattern shows. 'Filler'.
Px - Blocks patterns. If paired with a pattern gene, masks pattern.
Pdal - Dalmation. Requires White as a base coat. Spots can be any colour. If wolf has 'Common Grey' or 'Roan', this shows in the spots, not on the white base.
Ppris - Prism. Any base coat. Snags two additional colours from gene pairs and distributes these as patches on body. Wings are one colour with second colour markings. (Deterioration/Mutation of Black Prism). Works on top of Common Grey and Roan effects.
Pbpris - Black Prism. Requires Black as a base coat, with red and gold in either colour pair. Creates patches of red and gold, red feathers with gold markings. Works on top of Common Grey and Roan effects.

Hurp durp. XD I also ignored 'hue' suggestions this time around, since I figure that the common grey gene affects hue pretty nicely. I don't see super light and super dark wolves waiting in the wings for a hue gene the way that pernese dragons need it! Hue can probably be eyeballed by averaging the parents.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:26 pm

Dray, would there be a way to have, say, up to four colors in that code so that you can have a common gray with different colors and whatever? Or is that getting too compliated? I mean, I don't see how one color can be dominate over the other truthfully. But...yeah...just a thought.

And could sizes work something like this? Sx/sx (x being a, p, r, e, d(demonic), c (avian canese)...)

SS being large, Ss average, ss small...

So...SaSp would be a large wolf - the hieght is perhaps hand picked by us from a combination of both the Alskyrian and Pernese chart (so a male would be between 2'10" to 3'2" (or perhaps between the two, so 2'11" to 3'1"). And a srsp female would have to be between 2'3" and 2'7".

Or....somehow show a dominace in the letters (A/a) and if you get SASP you would have to choose a middle ground like above, while SASp would be a large wolf using the Alskyrian chart?

Something to ponder...XD

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:44 pm

Yes. The current set specifically says that four colours are used in common grey wolves.

Let me give you an example to help you get a better picture.

Example!wolf has a code like so:

Ca3Ca5 Ca2Ca7 GG RR PoPo

Ca3 = Alskyrian Black
Ca5 = Alskyrian White

Ca2 = Alskyrian Brown
Ca7 = Alskyrian Gold

(So obviously he's a purebred alskyrian! XD)

GG = Full Common Grey
RR = No roan to be found!
PoPo = No patterns, but if he bred with a wolf that did have patterns, his offspring might have 'em!

So, for common grey:

This wolf would have a blackish body (probably more of a dark grey) around his legs, muzzle, belly and base of his tail, because Ca3 is the more dominant colour in the first set. Because Ca2 is the more dominant colour in the second set, his back, forehead, top-of-tail, shoulders, thighs and wing-arms would be sprinkled with brown. Using the last two colours (White and gold) he'd have hints of white and gold on his body, more likely showing up on his wings or perhaps along his belly and insides of his legs.

Let's take example!wolf's very-nearly-genetic twin, eg!wolf, to see how roan works:

Ca3Ca5 Ca2Ca7 gg rr PoPo

Eg!wolf has exactly the same colours, but he is not a common grey. He's a roan!

In this case, we ignore that second pair of colours completely. Eg!wolf is an even mixture of Ca3 and Ca5, meaning that he's about 50% grey. No pretty brown and gold for him!

A third wolf, a triplet I suppose, is ex!wolf. He has the same colours, but demonstrates how Common Grey and Roan can work off of one another.

Ca3Ca5 Ca2Ca7 GG rr PoPo

The wolf is a roan, so he is an even mix of Ca3 and Ca5 (remember we only use the first two colours when roan is showing!). He's grey. However, he's also a common grey, so his body will very likely be a mottled grey (the black and the white will have some random hue changes making his legs, belly, muzzle, tail etc. paler and his back and wingarms a little darker) with a liberal smattering of brown along his back and wings, as well as gold accents here and there. Some purer white may show up on his chin and paws or belly, too.

Does this explain things clearly?

This code is not meant to clearly define what goes where exactly, it's just a good way to figure out what the offspring might look like.

As for size, generally I look at the parents and give the offspring an average size between them for the babies (slightly smaller for females, and larger for males!) I wouldn't include it as part of the code, since it's very easy to eyeball the results. (Of course it'll take a while to get used to your height changes, but so long as we have access to them, we should be easily able to determine average sizes for each breed!)

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:52 pm

*nods* sounds good, Though I will tweak as I figure out the rarity of colors, if it's easier to keep it that way.

Okay, let me try to "hash" out the Elruvian colors...I made them vauge sorta on purpose...at the time...this is all sorta...tentive...

I have the magic type, then the colors in order of most common. Common gray can appear in all, just using those colors, more often then naught. So, desert can/should have white & black perhaps, listed...*blinks*

ice magic - white/silver (ice wolves have silver, snow wolves have white); white/silver (flip them), pale grayish blues
earth magic - brown, tan, grays, black
heat magic - pale gold, gold, red, white
plant magic - dull green (gray green), brown, gray, black, gold
fire magic - red, gold, reddish-brown, black
seerism - white, silver, gold
illusion - gold, white, silver
water magic - blue, silver, gray, black, white
weather magic - gray, black, dull blue, white
black magic - black, red, gold (often darker shades)
spirit magic - white, silver, pale gold
healing magic - pale gold, silver, pale dull green, pale dull purple
shadow magic - black, gray, silver (daker shade)
dark magic - darkerns the shade of the original coat after they've been corrupted by a Black Wolf - so I really can't list any for it. >.<

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:54 pm

>.< Okay, sorry...should have read the beginning...so busy posting and idea-plotting. LOL Okay, I get it. Perfect...*purrs with glee*

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:56 pm

Dray wrote:As for size, generally I look at the parents and give the offspring an average size between them for the babies (slightly smaller for females, and larger for males!) I wouldn't include it as part of the code, since it's very easy to eyeball the results. (Of course it'll take a while to get used to your height changes, but so long as we have access to them, we should be easily able to determine average sizes for each breed!)

True, and it could still be done, truthfully. Though it would make sense to have it...if you want to be more specific to small, average, large within those ranges. *nod*

*shrug*

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:05 pm

I am a Posting Hog tonight...urg...

Sizes on pages now up. XD

(just had to say that...

Also edited colors, which I think may make more sense...I can add gray back in but I think that would be a combination of black and white hairs rather then an actuall color...*nod* black and white are present in common gray no matter what, so they would probably be dominate with brown second, tan, cream, gold, red. (should rearange that list, I guess)

*goes to get food now...* LOL

Post by **Dray** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:36 pm

As a random aside, I may gank this sort of code thing for something else in the future. XD I really like the way that the roan mixes with the effect called common grey here!

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:49 pm

XD I'm making the page for all this now...

I may use a simular idea (a, p, r...what not), for the abilities, too *nods*

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:05 pm

http://www.alair-wolfkeep.wolf-mage.com/d_code.html

How is that looking? I have size (which will probably be optional for all of you, lol. I added it anyway for people like me), and abilities, which should make sense. Tell me what you think. Nothing is set but you're free to test. I need to get to bed so I can't yet. >.< I haven't spell checked anything...I apologize in advance.

Eye color may be another one, eh?

jess d · Post by **jess d** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:43 pm

Okay, here are the links for Elnevi and Ketair!

http://www.valmorran.com/wolfden/elnevi.html
http://www.valmorran.com/wolfden/ketair.html

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:53 am

So, I ran my first litter using the code...they will be availble once I get forms and rules and other stuff fishished *nods* But, here is a teaser. XD

It's actually one of the litter's I had created a year or so ago, which is why the one puppy is already claimed.

Post by **Dray** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:32 am

Ha ha, awesome! :D Looking forward to these!

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:07 am

Cute! I especially like the top two.
And because I'm curious, I was looking online for information on regular Earth wolf genetics, and I cannot find a single thing. :/ Closest I could find was some stuff on dog genetics, but nothing that really explains how the coloring works with common grey. Anyway, since I was (sort of) listening to a lecture on genetics in my biology class the other day, I started putting together an alternative genetic code for the wolves based on what I know of actual dog, cat, and horse genetics. Just for the heck of it, mostly just to see if I could. NOT that I expect you to rearrange that code again or even use it at all, but in case anyone's curious...

Post by **Dray** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:12 am

I would be! Like I'd said before, the last biology class I've taken was a long time ago. X3 If you've been doing research and have something that sounds more 'right', I would love to hear it.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:12 pm

Same here...I can redo those puppies if the new code creates something different, if I decide to change it because it works better. The only one i can't change is Ayren. >.< *shrug* This one is very complicated, sorta, but works, too.

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:37 pm

It'll be up in a bit; a few last minute changes lead to some serious snags! XD

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:43 pm

XD I know how that goes *takes a stick and smacks the pernese genetics* XD

Post by **Dray** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:51 pm

Sooooo, how's that first litter going~? :D

Also, I was wondering about Elruvian wolves. When they breed out (say, with a Pernese), would the pups be more likely to just be regular pernese colours, perhaps with a hint of the Elruvian parent, but without the magic? Or... for example, if an Ice Blue (Ice) Elruvian bred with a common grey Pernese, would any common grey-coloured pups inherit the stone/mountain magic?

What I mean to ask is: is Elruvian magic hooked solely to coat colour, or is magic passed down through generations, meaning that random different kinds of magic won't crop up unless they were somewhere in the pup's lineage?

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:27 pm

Oh, the pups are great. Driving there mother nuts but, doing pretty good. LOL

XD I have all the images done, Dray...just trying to get more of my own critters and characters paged first. Some are long over due. Then I intened to reopen Falas, the FGPC, Dark Moon and Alair, for sure. And with a space ship able to take up the slack where Treval fell short, perhaps I can try to get that organized, too. >.<

>.<This>.<

Post by **Dray** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:36 pm

Also, I was wondering about Elruvian wolves. When they breed out (say, with a Pernese), would the pups be more likely to just be regular pernese colours, perhaps with a hint of the Elruvian parent, but without the magic? Or... for example, if an Ice Blue (Ice) Elruvian bred with a common grey Pernese, would any common grey-coloured pups inherit the stone/mountain magic?

What I mean to ask is: is Elruvian magic hooked solely to coat colour, or is magic passed down through generations, meaning that random different kinds of magic won't crop up unless they were somewhere in the pup's lineage?

:D