Adobe Photoshop?

Post by **DragonFlight** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:33 am

Yeah, so.....after using Paint Shop Pro 5 for like 7 years, I finally got Adobe Photoshop. I have version 7, so it's not all new and shiny, but it's proving to be severely out of my league without a manual or other instruction.

I'm having difficulties with a few things, and I don't know how to handle it. Here's a good example.

Anytime I load an image into Adobe, be it a BMP, GIF, JPG, anything, the colors distort into like.....a yellow-ish tint. I tried changing the color modes but that doesn't help. But it might have something to do with my monitor drivers maybe? Since Adobe informed me on installation that it didn't like them or something. But anyway.

There's that, and then there's a more obvious problem. I can't seem to adjust the brushes enough to do my shading, like I can in PSP. It's so straight forward in PSP that I don't even know where to start in Adobe. I've tested the opacity of brushes, the blending mode, whatever I can see, and I can't seem to get the same effect. ;_;

If anyone knows Adobe Photoshop 7 well enough to help me out, pleeaassseeeee post? ;_;

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:09 am

.... You should have just gotten PSP 8.

Photoshop is teh shittest program under the sun. No wait, I spoke too soon: corel 12 is the worst.

You might try using their help files but frankly I wouldn't expect too much from it. It usually takes professional comic artists no fewer than 3 programs including PSP and Photoshop to do their work. No single program seems to suit them...

Definitely update your video drivers though. That'd probably help in other ways too. (I hope)

If what you're doing with it is making web-worthy images, and not *photo-quality* print images, photoshop I would have to say is a waste of time and money. And effort - you'll spend more time tearing your hair out than getting anything done... No offense to anyone who does know how to use it, but I have tried several times, with different versions now, and I just can't understand why *anyone* would prefer it to PSP.

I mean heck, I'm only using about 30% of what PSP does, too...

There are forums for Photoshop tutorials, that'd probably be your best bet. The help and (lack of) manual would only be a start - because their documentation is crap too... I'm sure someone else with a more positive attitude would be of more help.

Shiolar · Post by **Shiolar** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:32 am

I have both PSP 7 and Photoshop 7, and I have to say I use them both for completely different things.

For pictures for the internet, like dragons, the buttons I'm using on Mirus, anything like that, PSP is far superior simply because its functions are more suited to creating new images than editing existing ones. PSP is good for anything that has to be right to the tiniest pixel, which is why it's best suited for dragons and the like, where it has to have a transparent background and all.

But, on the other hand, if I have a screenshot from a computer game and I want to clean it up, then Photoshop is what I go for, because that is the one with the tools for editing photos, or screenshots that are intended to look real. It's more designed for... existing images that aren't exactly perfect, like a photo, and so an exact pixel edit would look unnatural, but covering up an existing blemish is just a matter of using other imperfections to hide it.

You can really tell the difference between screenshots edited in PSP rather than Photoshop. For starters, in Photoshop you can't actually tell they're edited.

I suppose it's evident in the name. Photoshop is for dealing with photos, paintshop is for actually being artistic.

I've used Corel, albeit many years ago, and I did find that slightly better than using Photoshop for artistic purposes. But with that said, MS Paint is also better if you're trying to create web-worthy images.

I hope some of that makes sense, and that it helps you a little.

Katasev · Post by **Katasev** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:19 pm

>>;;; i may get shot for this, btu i actually really like photoshop quite a bit. that's what i use for most of my imaging.... er... the only problems i ever get with the colours are that the blues never come out right - they look like purple in the screen but turn into blue everywhere else. hitting save for web usually works to make it look right, at least to preview it though.

um... brushes can usually be adjusted by the little tab over in the top right. it can adjust scatter, tilt, opacity, roundness, colour/hue jitter, and even combine brushes. i dunno, but i'm on AIM usually if you want me to help ye anytime... though i'm on teh family computer at the moment so i don't have photoshop here... ^^;;

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:03 pm

You should put up a tutorial.

And yeah that's exactly the difference. The really high-end Photoshop with all the other doodah stuff that wasn't included originally is supposed to be quite nice, but I don't know anyone who has it (or can *afford* it, it's like a 600$ program). I'm hardly gonna work with photo editing myself, but I have to use Corel at work and it's like a hundred times less easy to use than Photoshop.

boo.

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:41 pm

Heh, I too like Photoshop. ::patpats her Photoshop CS:: PSP just never worked for me. XD

Silent Potato · Post by **Silent Potato** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:58 pm

Hi! Yes. I am kinda new here, but I use Photoshop a lot and thought I might as well stick in my two cents...

As far as controlling the paintbrush goes, I find that adjusting the 'flow' (should be at the bar on the top of the screen once you select the brush) works better than adjusting opacity. That way, if you keep painting over the same place, it'll keep getting darker. Sort of build up, the way crayons do.

Also, holding shift and pressing a square bracket will adjust the density of your paintbrush. shift-[ will give it more softness, feathered around the edges, while shift-] will make it harder.

Just pressing the square brackets on their own, without the shift key, will make the paint brush larger and smaller.

Also, there's a tap in the upper right corner that says 'brushes.' It has other options in it, and also a variety of different types of brushes that you can use.

So. Um. Yes! Hope that helps a little bit.

~Potato

Skysong · Post by **Skysong** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:58 pm

I switched over to Photoshop from PSP a couple years ago. It took me a while to learn how to do some things that I'd been quite comfortable with in PSP (learning how to make a transparent background took me far too long :p), but now I'll take my Photoshop kicking and screaming to the grave with me!

..that last sentence made no sense, and for that I apologize.

Unfortunately I can't help you out with the color problem.. I'm using the same version of PS and it's never given me troubles like that >_> My main issue is with my scanner eating the color orange..

EDIT: One thing I'd like to learn how to do with Photoshop is have the brush so that the beginning of the stroke starts off really small, then gradually increases in thickness as the line progresses. Or the opposite, starting off thick and tapering off to smaller. Anyone know how to do anything like that?

Post by **DragonFlight** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:59 pm

Well, I love PSP5 (yes, I'm stuck on 5 and I love it) but I got Photoshop because Myrror had shown me how she does certain stuff, and I can't seem to duplicate the effects on PSP5, like the way she transparentizes her images - mine come out blurry - and being able to use a shading layer, since I can't for the life of me figure out a duplicate technique in PSP5 - and if I could, I could color my images infinitely faster if I only had to shade them once.

And my video drivers are up to date, I dunno what that error was. It was strange. Because when I save a colored image in Adobe, then look at it outside the program, it looks fine again. (That's a good sign.)

I'm wondering if it would be possible to save different images in PSP, and turn them into one image in Photoshop, like....create the shading layer in PSP as a separate image, and then somehow work the transparencies to make it the shading layer of an image in Adobe so that I can change the base colors easily....

Anyone ever done something like that? I have a feeling that I'll still be using PSP alot, but Photoshop might help speed me up. ^^

Xalia · Post by **Xalia** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:16 pm

I've been meaning to do a tutorial for Photoshop for ages, because it really puts PSP to shame. (No offense to loyal PSP users!)

I used PSP for years because I couldn't figure Photoshop out, I took a class in it and absolutely refuse to go back! There's nothing like Photoshops layers abilities, and image manipulation abilities. PSP has some awesome filters that I miss from time to time, but I still wouldn't ever go back.

You can do layers in the newer versions of PSP, but it's not as straightforward as Photoshop and they're really difficult to adjust the blending modes on.

If you need help in Photoshop feel free to hop on Yahoo!Messenger anytime, PM me, or e-mail me with your questions.

It might be possible to create the layers in PSP if you really want to, but I think if you really sit down and use Photoshop and all the awesome features it has you'll agree there's just no comparison!

OH, and the color problem...I know there's a way to edit the way Adobe reads colors from your computer. Adobe doesn't usually like it when you do it, but if you're not getting the right look, then by all means, try it out. I have CS so I'm not sure if I can help you, but if you want me to pull out the manual and walk you through it I'd be glad to.

Shiolar · Post by **Shiolar** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:16 pm

I use a shading layer in PSP. What I do is get a duplicate layer of the main outline (or just a plain transparent layer), and use the airbrush set to about size 15-25 (depending on the overall size and complexity of the image), and opacity set to 5%. Use one mouse button for black airbrush, and one to white.

Do the shading on this layer, which should already be transparent, and then do a Gaussian blur set to between 5 and 10, based on the size and complexity of the image. Then, you just keep that layer in place, and colour the ones underneath it, so you get the light and dark shading over the top. But then you need a separate layer right at the top with a solid colour filling all the sections that you don't want shaded, so you have clean lines around the edge of the dragon...

It takes a while to do, but unless something goes horribly wrong, you only need to do it once...

I use layers so much... each of my Mirus dragons uses 7 layers...

Post by **DragonFlight** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:19 pm

Thanks to everyone for the input - I'm going to start messing around with things as soon as I finish unpacking my important stuff.....like my extra internet cables and my scanner. :D

Katasev · Post by **Katasev** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:22 pm

aw man i love gaussian blur. soft shading is SO EASY with that crap. XD;; i'm so bad about that... the only thing that psp has that photoshop doesn't, in my opinion, is the picture tube thing... >>; that's pretty cool.

Skysong, after mucking about for a bit, go to the brushes tab, shape dynamics, and hit size jitter 0%, control fade. the number next to it is how many steps it fades out it. is that what you're looking for?

(is at home with her photoshop now. XD)

Skysong · Post by **Skysong** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:45 pm

Katasev wrote:aw man i love gaussian blur. soft shading is SO EASY with that crap. XD;; i'm so bad about that... the only thing that psp has that photoshop doesn't, in my opinion, is the picture tube thing... >>; that's pretty cool.

Skysong, after mucking about for a bit, go to the brushes tab, shape dynamics, and hit size jitter 0%, control fade. the number next to it is how many steps it fades out it. is that what you're looking for?

(is at home with her photoshop now. XD)

EXACTLY what I was looking for! So simple and yet I had no idea.. thank you very much XD

Katasev · Post by **Katasev** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:37 pm

XD no problem, i just figured it out after you mentioned it. i'll probably use it muchly now too. >3 i've always messed with size/shape jitters, i just never knew they could do *that* XD

... omg japanese calligraphy possibilities! =D

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:49 pm

*scratches head*

I never quite understood why everyone thinks photoshop is so crappy. I figured it out rather quickly the first time, but I also had a lot of help with my graphic arts class in high school. You just have to experiment until you get it right. The brushes have little slider things to adjust size, transparency, and, I believe in 7, flow, as well as a few preset brush sizes. The transparencies and stuff you have to adjust yourself though. As for the color thing, that is weird -- it probably does have something to do with the driver on your computer.

What's strange though is I have PSP 8 on my computer as well as photoshop and I can't tell up from down on that thing. I gave up after a few tries and went back to photoshop. Guess I'm just weird

Asha Wermyst · Post by **Asha Wermyst** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:57 pm

I have Photoshop 5. It stinks, but if I batter it hard enough, I may someday find out how to transparentize stuff with it.

Until then, I've been using Paint......I just like it better. It's less likely to lock up my crappy computer, among other things.

Post by **Dray** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:08 pm

Asha: I have photoshop 5, too, and the way that you can save a transparent image is to look in the File section. There should be an "Export > Gif89a Export" or something similar. Try working through that (and remember to make sure that the layer-full image is transparent, too!) and see where it takes you. (It's the only way I know how to make an image transparent on this piece of crap.)

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Painter Classic is an older version of PSP? I got my shat-photoshop and Painter Classic in the same bundle that came with me worthless tablet, and I'm wondering if it's just the antiquated version of this amazing PSP that you're all raving about. XD If it /is/, does anyone know how I can make the brush sizes different? XPPP There only seems to be a 'small' 'medium' and 'large' paintbrush stroke, and it really. Really. REALLY sucks for detail work. 9_9 Whole program seems like crap, but then I haven't really sat down with it.

O_o' *hopes that was all readable, since she's a bit muzzed from boozy-drinks* o.O.o.O.o.O.o!

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:29 pm

Nope, PSP and Painter are completely different programs. PSP actually changed a bit of its programming between like 4 and 7, and from there I think it's been a lot of refinements.

The difference between 5 and 8 is *tremendous* in PSP. I had everything from 5 through, so yeah. It's a great program for web use, I think. I hate layers myself, so that's why I greatly dislike photoshop and corel.

Sargon · Post by **Sargon** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:44 pm

*riases hand*

I have photoshop 7 and i LOVE IT.

really. I hate paitnshop after using photoshop. It takes time to get used to, i've used it for almost 4 years and really fell in love with it. You can do amazing things with all the different brush settings and stuff. I've learned to do everything from making our dragon images to painting stuff like van gough. (no joke-french project..:0)

But. Tranparentilizing stuff. hello? help>export transparent image. make a selection around your background and the thing does it for you. Or you do what you can do in psp and make the background like neon green and go to Save image for web. Use the eyedropper tool (make sure you check allow transparency) and pick out all colors that look greenish or green tinged. It's not the best to do it this way, i'd just stick with the export wizard if you're new :X.

The color is your gamma. Adobe has a special setting for gamma which i personally think is kind of retarded sometimes, kind of cool others. (you can get really cool shades of gray and black in ps). When you installed it, it should have installed adobe gamma correcter wherever you keep your control panel. Walk through that wizard and it'll get rid of the yellow-tinge. And if you don't have it, i can send it to you or something xx.

And i color like 87 different ways. If anyone wants me to explain them i will xD.

Post by **DragonFlight** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:52 pm

I didn't see a gamma corrector anywhere. @_@

GildedLilly · Post by **GildedLilly** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:17 pm

...Don't diss the PS 7! Photoshop may be a little hard to master, but, once tamed, she shall be a friend forever. I didn't have any trouble, though- one time fussing around with it and I had learned almost everything I needed.

Plus, I use a Mac for art, and PSP for Mac is shoddy.

I've never had a problem with colors changing... odd.

Sargon · Post by **Sargon** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:20 am

do you want me to send you gamma correction then dragonflight? o.O

Post by **DragonFlight** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:03 pm

That'd be great, actually, Sargon. Can you email it? I don't know how big the file is, but if you can mail it, dragonflight@lostmysanity.net is my addy. Otherwise you might have to upload it somewhere for a download. ^^;

Sargon · Post by **Sargon** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:46 pm

aight. i'll get it to you asap.

Kibeth · Post by **Kibeth** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:06 pm

Y'know, Corel bought PSP.
Now it's "Corel Paint Shop Pro X"
Kinda stupid move for Jasc.

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:46 pm

Crap on a stick. It looks like version 9 will be my last purchace of that product.