So this DeviantArt commission I wanted...

[Shard]

I've been going back and forth with this one deviant, radiant-suzuka, for several months now.

A while back, I asked for people who might be interested in helping me put illustrations in the World of Zekira RPG book I'm writing. I was very up front and frank about what I wanted, and how much I'd be willing to pay.

This girl contacted ME, saying hey I'd like to play with these, what do you want?

I looked over her gallery and decided I liked the style, and said sure. Here's the idea.

(It's a 5 person group scene, a garden party where people are subtly trying to backstab, poison, etc each other)

She said, yeah that sounds fun! What style do you want it in? I chose the semi-realistic, not anime style, which seemed more like what would be okay. She declared first, I can do 20 for anime or 40 for realistic (or something akin to those prices). So the final which I agreed upon - because she said nothing before now, was 50$ for the final piece.

Which I paid. She chose the characters she'd be doing, from a list I showed her.

Now... the first bit of weird shit comes into play:

She asks, "so, will you be giving me copyright credit and co-ownership for having redesigned your characters?"

.... yeah, she said that.

And then, she said, "I notice your site's not up on it's own, do you want me to buy a real dot.com and put up a site for you? my friend and I kind of have a business doing that.

.... Again, yeah, she said that. In those words.

Of course I replied, "sweetie, you're not redesigning my characters, you're being given freedom to draw what looks best for them. I own them whole, and you're just drawing." And, "... I have a perfectly good dot com, thanks, it's in progress and when I get it going I'll be doing that myself, 'thanks'."

THEN, after getting the first pencils back (which are admittedly pretty nice, and clean, and only small adjustments need to be made), she says, "okay for the color, I'm thinking 50 per would be good, so send me the 250$ and I'll get coloring."

... she SAID THAT.

At what point did she ever say "per character?" - that'd be "never". not once.

Even other folks who do additional characters only slap on a charge of maybe 10 or 15 bucks each on top of the final price for each one. BUT since she actually draws these characters *individually* and apparently colors them that way as well, THEN assembles them onto a background (which... I'm like, what the fuckinghell? don't you fucking draw them, like, together?), she feels the need to charge "individually".

I explained that no one I've ever met or paid for anything from, does it like that. So my balking at the 250$ price tag was pretty reasonable, considering she *agreed to fifty dollars period, for a completed group scene* according to the last email. And, not 50 for pencils and THEN fifty for colors, either. For the COMPLETE piece, which I specifically stated.

We went back and forth a little, and came up with I suppose a reasonable compromise, 100$ more from what I've already paid. Now... that said, she said she completed the pieces and wanted to finish up and send it to me.

So I'm like, okay, I'll send you paypal once I know I'm good for it.

And she says, "and I'm sending my contract to you to sign, and then I'll send you the art".

.... wait, what? Contract? Since when does an unpro kid on DA need a contract?

So I go and look... and it sent all my bells and whistles off. A clause which essentially says it belongs to her *no matter what*, that she can "reclaim" it at any time, go back on the commission, and that she has final say whether anything else gets done with it, INCLUDING putting it up on the web, in print or wherever.

... Now, up front, right off, I stated very clearly:

This is for a potentially printed published rpg book, which may wind up on pdf, on the web, or in physical print.

She agreed to do the art. SEVERAL times I reiterated, "I'll definitely be putting your contact info on the image and in the credit section" as that's not an issue for me.

... So I have refused to sign the contract, and after 2 weeks of stomach-tearing grief about this, have finally sent her a note at DA regarding what I wish to see done now.

She can agree to my prior existing email contracts - you get a copy of the final piece if i use it, you get credit for the art, I post it where I please with that credit, you don't sell it outside of to me but you can put it up with MY copyright on it... you know, the typically assumed stuff that ANYONE with half a clue would say.

OR, destroy the work and my 50 bucks is forfeit.

I just ... can't believe all this fucking SHIT from a girl who claims to be "professional".... o.0

So my advice is never, ever deal with that piece of shit on DA. And what I want is tea and sympathy. Her actions are fucking REVOLTING to me. Her dishonesty and underhanded methods - they're like a used car salesman. I don't even know if she herself understands the wording of the 'contract' (which looks like she swiped it from an architectural firm or something) and if she DOES, how underhanded she ACTUALLY is for having tried to actively STEAL things from people.

I've bought things for more than 25 years from real, paid, published professional artists. They do this for a living, remember? They might get paid at a comic publisher, but they come to cons and they charge 50 bucks and you get YOUR character, done by them, - badda bing, badda boom, DONE. No contracts, no fuss about copyrights.

I so want to take her down a few pegs. But I also really, really detest confrontations like this.

So ... yeah. That's been my world for a while, and now I'm waiting for her to read the email. That ought to be fun.

I have this feeling I'll be searching for my characters on her site for a while. Of course, her "site" actually is a link back to Deviantart. ... so much for her and her friend's "business", eh?

[Guest]

hmm.... if you have copies of the e-mail that you sent to each other, you might alert the staff at devianart about it. just in case she does put those characters up on deviantart. and i'm sure she would probably get banned from there or get investigated to see if she had done something like what happened to you in the past with other people.

[Shard]

Well, I'm waiting for what she does. If she does back out or get angry, I'm going to file a petition with the staff about it, but I know what they'll say: it's between her and me.

I'd still rather have the artwork than not, and rather not have to burn the bridge behind me. I really hate that. But she's .... just wow amazing, presumptive (hello, no, you do not own any part of what you're drawing when it's a fucking commission!) and so flakey (oh didn't I mention it was per character? I thought you knew? tee hee ... good god).

So now, yeah. Waiting. Which isn't any better than waiting for myself to get the gumption to write her the last letter of "no thanks, comply with my offer or stuff it". We'll see whether she's got the grace of a pro, or the chip on her shoulder gets in the way of reality...

[Dray]

Good lord, that's one Charlie Foxtrot right there.

In Radiant's favor (and this is the only point I'll give her) $50 is rather underpriced for a full-coloured, five-person scene that includes a background. If that were me (or any other artist with half a brain) I'd be thinking about how many hours would go into the creation of it and charge at least $100. Probably more, just because it takes a long time to put it together.

She should have known this and charged it up front. Agreeing to charge $50 for that kind of an image (depending on the size) smells either like a complete n00b who doesn't know how much works she's just given away for free, or fishy, like somebody who knows full well but is hoping to snag people with unrealistically low prices.

She needs to have written up a contract first, if she wanted a contract at all. "This is what I will draw for you. You get to see the pencils and ask for two adjustments. I want the right to re-sell the picture later," (if that's her fancy.) "I require a kill fee if you back out on me. I require an extra fee if the deadline is pushed back on me. I WILL PRODUCE THE IMAGE ON TIME." etc.

Trying to rip more money on you afterwards makes it sound like she realized how little she was charging and then tried to save face by going completely the fuck in the opposite direction. If you can get your money back, tell her you want out. She doesn't know what she's doing, obviously, and she has no idea of proper protocol. Chances are that even if you did settle things and give her the additional $250 ($300 for her skill level? Um, no. Maybe gunnerromantic could charge that kind of money, but sweetie-anime-artist is going to need to work on her skill sets before she charges 300 smackers for a spot piece....

anyways, even if you DID pay her the cash, she'd take years to finish it.

Hell, I should know. :\ I'm still working on commissions that are way easier than that. It's not easy to stick to schedule.

Anyways, I'm so sorry that you got tangled up in that kind of crap, Shard. *hugs* Good luck with getting your money back or getting the art you want! *hearts and good-wishes!*

[Xenoqueen]

Geez. Now, me? Sometimes I *do* draw characters separately, color them separately, then impose them all in the same image. I do that because there are times when I just suck at managing paper space. However, would I charge someone for multiple individual pieces just because of my own method of working towards the final image? Absolutely NOT.

That whole escapade is a whole lot of bad vibes. :\ Not professional in the slightest.

[Shard]

Yeah earlier this year I got a calendar commissioned for the City of Heroes folks, and Brandon did those individually because they were then being put on separate *months*. They all fit together, but that's an entirely different thing. Plus, he was WORTH paying what I paid for it.