Universal Size Chart...er... charts.

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:14 pm

Part Two!

Are you ready for the Arx Atra Mons sizes? XD They're listed here: http://www.geocities.com/shadowsiders/beastinfo.html

The teeny snake dudes (Basic Level): 15-35' (long? I think?)
Greater: 20-40'
Soldier: 25'-45'
Imperial: 30'-50'
Majestic: 35'-55'
Chaos: 40'-60'

Ty, are those lengths? :o I just realized that the AAM Beasts that I have would be significantly smaller if I recognized those as lengths instead of the heights that I have listed out on their pages! *facepalm*

As for Draks... :\ it looks like the site was taken down early?! I can't seem to find it! http://www.geocities.com/planeticarus/ I tried using the wayback machine but it won't give me more than the general table. ;_;

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:19 pm

Dray wrote:As for Draks... :\ it looks like the site was taken down early?! I can't seem to find it! http://www.geocities.com/planeticarus/ I tried using the wayback machine but it won't give me more than the general table. ;_;

I have no idea what the original said, but this is what I had at Baskar:
http://www.baskar-castle.wolf-mage.com/c_info.html

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:24 pm

Also, since my info site at Falas is down:

old Chart I used at Falas for the info page
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/cynte/sizes.gif

Length then Height
Gold: 38-42 ft (10'8" to 11'9")
Bronze: 35-40 ft (9'10" to 11'2")
Brown: 30'35 ft (8'5" to 9'10")
Blue: 25-30 ft (7' to 8'5")
Green: 20-25 ft (5'7" to 7')
Sport: 15-20 ft (4'2" to 5'7")

That's using a conversion of 28%.

Wingspan is 206% but I was thinking of making it bigger...

Some other (useless) info/conversions:

Head: 12% of length
Neck: 16%
Body: 28%
Tail: 50%
One Wing: 100% (like I said, maybe bigger?)

Keilin Alyr · Post by **Keilin Alyr** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:28 pm

As for Draks... :\ it looks like the site was taken down early?! I can't seem to find it! http://www.geocities.com/planeticarus/ I tried using the wayback machine but it won't give me more than the general table. ;_;

Oof, it looks like Trix and Cyan let the main site go un-updated for long enough that Yahoo took it down for supposed inactivity. Maybe someone could volunteer to email Trix for the information, that way she's not flooded with a swarm of emails?

Sadness, I really did like the layout for that site.

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:32 pm

I don't have Trix's email, unfortunately! If you have it, I won't flood her inbox! XD

It'd also be good to know that the Lantessama sites aren't going to go down come the 26th!

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:10 pm

Aww, crap, the Planet Icarus site is down? I still remember most of the pertinent information, but it would nice to be able to factcheck.

Lantessama and other sites are definitely not on geocities, though, so they should be safe.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:20 pm

Kitsuneko wrote:Well, I meant "default size" in the Nexus, actually, if I wasn't clear. But now I'm wondering if I was the only one who assumed my greens were always 20-25 feet long and golds didn't get larger than 45. XP

Definitely not the only one, that is my guideline too (which is why, the sports have to be smaller).

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:29 pm

I think I missed a bunch of posts at the bottom of the first page!

..you know, length would make a LOT more sense for my "XXL, 44 feet" Geperna I got from a giveaway. XD I always wondered why he was a freaking small planet of a blue....

Ahhh yes, me too! D: I wondered how huge the original Mythicalae dragons must have been if the Geperna that we were getting were supposed to be the tiny versions and yet were 44+ feet tall. XDDD

And JKat, I like the idea of having a length chart -- though I don't know... 'very short' vs 'very long' doesn't really give me a good scale of size for some reason. When I read 'very short' I imagine a hands-breadth, whereas 'very long' is more like a 'holding arms far apart and waving them for emphasis' sort of size. XD Could we recycle 'very small' and 'very large' and everything in between without confusion?

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:29 pm

'ight guys, I hacked together a preliminary size range chart for the Pernese. XD Remember, I'm looking for input on this, so if anyone sees something they think is really wrong, let me know! I erred on the side of small-but-liberal size range for these, as they seemed to be the public's desire. How's this sit with y'all?

PERNESE

Sport:
15-22ft long
3'9"-5'6"ft shoulder
Green:
20-28ft long
5"-7" shoulder
Blue:
25-33ft long
6'2"-8'2" shoulder
Brown:
30-40ft long
7'6"-10" shoulder
Bronze:
35-45ft long
8'9"-11'2" shoulder
Gold
38-50ft long
9'6"-12'6" shoulder

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:31 pm

Those smallest sport sized ones are only about a foot taller than the winged wolves I've got! XD

I like that range, though.

O_O It makes Gold dragons shorter than your Askans though. For some reason I always thought of Asandae as being smaller than Pernese dragons.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:33 pm

Dray, you sniper you!

In regards to using 'very short' to 'very long', I wanted them to be different than 'very large' and 'very small', so they could be used in conjunction with one another.

Like if you had a dragon that was I dunno, 3.0m at the shoulder and 12m long, you could say it was either:
Medium
Medium, Long
(or just) Long,
depending on whether you like to think in length, height, or both. :D They'd be describing the same dragon, just from different angles.

...though I might have to start specifying "medium tall" and "medium long" rather than just "medium", dur!

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:34 pm

>_> I would like one dragon who's various dimensions rated 'stunty' and 'runty' in that case. :D

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:37 pm

Looks good by me. :3

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:33 pm

Yeah that looks to be about what I'd say. I always wind up with some bizarre big blues or tiny golds, and then some of the healing denners are just OUT of whack lol, but they're bred for weird, not for consistancy.

Keilin Alyr · Post by **Keilin Alyr** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:49 pm

It's hokey and a little too convenient, but I swear by the 5-foot increment rule for Pernese. 15-20 for small sports, 20-25 for greens, 25-30 for blues, and screw the 38-42 for golds, mine are 40-45.

I think my husband's OCD and former roommate's anal-retentiveness are rubbing off on me. I love nice and tidy patterns and even increments.

Of course, one always has to account for weird and random outliers, both in terms of individuals and individual agencies. Bell curve be damned as we used to say in statistics class. *chuckles*

Post by **Dray** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:53 am

The only problem with that is that it's always "the biggest greens are only ever as big as the smallest blues" -- which is okay, I guess. I like that there's some overlap here.

delyar · Post by **delyar** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:55 am

I'm another 5 foot increment lover. I've always assumed "large brown" can overlap with "small bronze" but that say 68% of the dragons fall within that 5 foot "range". (And then there's the freaks, obviously.)

I do love the heights though. Yay heights. I never bothered to picture me + dragon and for some reason this is mind boggling. (I am a total failure at math + relevance to my life, hence me being on here during physics... lecture... oops.)

I also always thought the Asandae were smaller than the Pernese. I liked the idea of little Gravo and Carara totally kicking ass at magic and staring down honking huge bronze Akyoth. :P

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:34 pm

Dray wrote:The only problem with that is that it's always "the biggest greens are only ever as big as the smallest blues" -- which is okay, I guess. I like that there's some overlap here.

Yes, and I don't see why a green can't hatch but still be the size of a small blue. There is no rule that says greens ONLY fall between 20-25, it's just average. It's like saying a breed of horse or dog can only reach this height but there are odd-balls that are bigger or smaller but are still that breed. I've just never assigned any that way.

The only two thing I disagree on is the height of a sport at 15'...it's WAY to small for even a person to ride as far as I'm concerned. But I'm sticking to my chart and the .28 conversion to height. Also, I won't let a gold get close to Ramoth's size. As far as I'm concerned by the time Falas shows up the Oldtimer dragons were breeding with the Ninth Pass dragons long bring the dragons back to the "programmed" size. I see the sizes given in DLGtP as the programmed size because it states "as a rule" somewhere in tehre. Maybe it was just refering to the golds but, yeah.

I have my chart and anyone who wants to use my generator is free to use it. The heights are just going to be different.

And, JKat, I would rather have just a height to shoulder chart because the legnth of tails and necks and bodies varies so much you can't get a good idea of what one species will line up next to anouther. *shrugs*

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:53 pm

I remembered last night that I have the Icarus Info printed out. O.o I've been skimming it but I can't find anything about sizes. I'll keep looking. I think I just made up sizes that fit my needs. *shrugs*

Post by **Dray** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:10 pm

I think Kat wound up making an average between your length to height ratio and the one from the chart that she linked. Using that came up with some teeny sports.

I like the idea of having a few of the smallest sports being too small to ride -- given that she's including the smallest to largest, and not just 'the average smallest to largest' that you mentioned earlier! X3 I'd imagine that those would be the extreme outliers anyhow.

Keilin Alyr · Post by **Keilin Alyr** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:23 pm

Regarding the smallest of small sports, unless the bond is an unusual character like some of Shard's Otherforest elves (isn't White Eyes small enough to ride a Lian?), I like the idea of once in a while having a character needing to treat their dragon like a Lian or similar small, unridable bond creature.

IC-wise, the dragon could still participate in combat and all that jazz, but their bond would have to multi-bond to ride in combat. Not all dragons, gryphons, phoenixes, pegasi, chimeras, what-have-you have to ferry humans on their back after all. =)

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Yup my elves are the exception to the tiny-size dragon rules of hard-to-ride.

Hell they have the opposite problem, because some of them managed to bond full sized - and LARGE - dragons... imagine a 4' tall child on a 15 foot high shoulder? It's like a dragon wearing a flitter

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:21 pm

I also always thought the Asandae were smaller than the Pernese. I liked the idea of little Gravo and Carara totally kicking ass at magic and staring down honking huge bronze Akyoth. :P

See, yeah, I made the asandae up when I thought the Pernese were still measured in METERS. They were supposed to be smaller. The Nexus just has smaller Pernese than I thought... and it would be just cruel of me to change the Asandus sizes on y'all again. >D

The 5' rule is a darn good rule of thumb, it sounds like! I put the overlap between colors because I wanted to cover all the bases, give some indication that size overlap is possible if not common.

Incidentally, I LOVE the idea of dragons that make their riders look like bitty bugs. >D I liked it better when I thought Pernese and Arx Atra Mons beasts were disturbingly large!

The only two thing I disagree on is the height of a sport at 15'.

Again, covering a wider range than most might, here. I'm assuming that there are some sports that are too small to carry a full-sized rider, and I'm including that possibility for completeness. I'm pretty sure I've seen some too-small-to-ride dragons around, though I can't name names off the top of my head!

And, JKat, I would rather have just a height to shoulder chart because the legnth of tails and necks and bodies varies so much you can't get a good idea of what one species will line up next to anouther. *shrugs*

Okay, yeah, understandable... but that's why the two charts wouldn't be connected. I wouldn't be saying all dragons at 15' long would HAVE to be 4-odd' tall... the height-size-chart and length-size-chart would be functionally separate charts, fully capable of functioning without being dependent on the other. Does that make sense?

Post by **StarFyre** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:45 pm

Myrsilkains make their riders look like bugs in most cases >.>;; Though less now than previously, since I re-did the math and went "heh, oops, didn't mean to make 'em THAT big."

The Myrsilk Dragons are, to put it bluntly, large. The average size can range anywhere from fifty to a massive one hundred feet long (though almost half of that, especially for the females, is tail) with the average length being around sixty to seventy or so feet long. There are the occasional sport/runt, of course, which may not even reach thirty feet when full grown, but these are fairly rare. A standard Myrsilk falls into the "Large" category, with a length of about sixty feet and a height of about twenty feet. Their standard body ratio is 1:3, being three times as long as they are tall.

Though I've always attributed that to the fact that Myrsilkains don't actually rely on their bonds for everything under the sun. Or, really, anything at all. So a human doesn't have to try and scrub all 20+ feet at the shoulder and 60+ feet of length. That would be... interesting...

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:02 pm

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:28 pm

The only reason I'm stating this is you want a UNIVERSAL chart...there will be at least two. If I get a dragon who is 15 ft long, I'm going to go by my chart no matter what. I keep trying to give my two cents and you all go "yeah, well" to it. Fine. I had MY charts up for years. I don't see why you couldn't have looked around the nexus, or asked those with pernese sites, first.

I don't care. Right now, I hope we do loose internet access in a few months (because we can't afford it) so i have a reason to stop coming here. Yeah, I'm still mad. I don't know why I worked on all that information when you just throw it out. You had a table, sizes, everything but you preferd something else even if all the sizes and everything that most/some people have been using were already there. The FIRST dragons were NOT that small. Why the heck would they get smaller.

Just do what you want. Anything I say now will just be brushed off, like usual. There is no point of making you see what I'm trying to say. Just go make your own chart, forget mine. You're trying to compromise, and you did for lengths. MY dragon 15'5". I can ride her and I ride her in Fall just fine. No, my sport dragons around that size can't last a full fall but I refuse to have her some 3' something. 4'4" is how tall she is no matter what you all decide.

Oh my god, Yakima. How many times do I have to say this. I'm taking what you have spent so much time making INTO ACCOUNT, considering it alongside what everyone else thinks too. That's why I keep asking for everyone's input. You're not the sole definer of dragon sizes in the Nexus, and to get mad about that is just... I don't even know. I'm not going to use what YOU soley defined and came up with, I'm trying to get EVERYONE in on this, not just one person.

And I'm done trying to soothe your hurt feelings, because you're going to get mad no matter what I do unless I drop everything and use your and only your sizes. Be mad if you want to, but either say something useful or stop repeating yourself. Use your own chart. It makes no difference to me or what I'm doing. The Universal Size Chart is for the people who want to have that resource available, which is apparently not you.

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:30 pm

Not one of us have said otherwise. Calm down please, re-read the discussion.

Each of us has a different way of looking over the sizes. The charts proposed aren't ones which are meant in any way to replace anyone's existing - just to flesh out the idea of what to expect of certain breeds. no one has ever stated that you must change anything - ever. It's a discussion, not an ultimatum.

Post by **Dray** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:51 pm

>_> It's not like we're getting many newbies these days to conscript into one camp or another of thought. If there is a USC for various dragons and one with percentages and specific ratios for Pernese, that seems fine to me. The only thing, Yakima, that I find odd is that I have never seen you advertise the Pernese chart that you've said has been up for years. It's hard to google for something that we don't know (or maybe just don't remember) exists! ...The only reason I use JKat's USC is because I know that there's a link to it in the General section for that intro to the Nexus site. XD Otherwise I'd probably forget about it, too.

In the end, if it all boils down to it, look at the picture of the dragon and judge for yourself. Sometimes I get dragons with sizes attached, and I look at them, and the height vs length just doesn't make any sense -- like the drawing makes it look like they're much longer than the stats state, for example.

In any case, it's easiest to tell when a good compromise has been reached because at that point, nobody is happy. :P JKat, I congratulate you on a jorb well done.

When do you think you'll get the page up -- or at least the bare bones? I love the current first chunk of the USC (it's the thing I refer to for all of my height-checking nowadays) but I'd be happy to see the new lower half of it, along with them generalized length indicators. Some of my eastern-ish dragons just don't sound right at 'small' when they're like 60' long. XD

Banned User · Post by **Banned User** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:36 pm

The page has been at Falas Weyr, Hatching Sands, Dragon Information. I didn't think I had to label it any differently.

Post by **Dray** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:38 pm

O_O Didn't you take Falas's front page down though so that we can't get to it?

(Sorry, I've just had trouble in the past finding your site because there's no signature link, and I haven't adopted much from that Weyr... so I haven't explored the subdirectory routes that you've made in depth!)