Universal Size Chart...er... charts.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:37 pm

So a project I'm going to try and do really quickly before Geocities eats itself is to record the size ranges for the most basic dragon types that you see all over the Nexus, on the Universal Size Chart page... instead of the random spattering of species charts I have there. XD

I'd love some help with this, if anyone has the information handy!

Ones I have already:
Hathians
Sistarrist Drakan Hydras
(I'm going to keep the Schattarneki on there because I don't know if their sizes are even up anywhere else. o.O)

Ones I'm looking for:
Alskyrian
Pernese/Old Worlder
Draks
Geperna
Danachians
Arx Atra Mons beasts

...ideas for any other basic types I'm missing? When you think "Nexus dragon", what do you think? What species should I have on there?

What I need for each type:
- Size range in HEIGHT AT SHOULDER, in feet AND/OR meters
- Preferably size range split up by the colors/types in the species
- Length/Wingspan are handy too.
- A basic image, or a set of the basic images (colors) to make an actual chart out of

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:54 pm

I keep feeling like one is missing! :x

Did the Moirean dragons have any specific differences other than that they all had reaaaaally long colour titles?

Keilin Alyr · Post by **Keilin Alyr** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:59 pm

I believe the Moire dragons varied from clutch to clutch and individual to individual, using the parents as a size basis.

I'll see if I can't dig up the second or third hatching stories, since by that point Efellai was labeling each individual dragon's stats. Maybe there's a pattern I don't remember.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:02 pm

Oooh, Moireans -- good point!

Psst, does anyone dissent the Pern sizes listed here? http://bronze-dragonrider.deviantart.co ... s-50464261 Cause I'm thinking of using those Ninth Pass sizes for the Pernese chart.

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:09 pm

I think those sizes are *awesome*.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:19 pm

Personally, I think they are a little too large. Ramoth, was, to my knowledge *45* feet, not 65... and, yeah, scaling down from there...

Plus, I like to think of my "sports" as under 20... so yeah, if it were me I would personally be scaling it down slightly, but, that is just me.

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:24 pm

Well, given the proportions of the rest of the creature, anything smaller than 20' is likely too small including the tail to lift itself and a human sized rider. Horses are 'squared', they're about the same length as they are height (roughly) but they don't have a long tail or long neck like dragons are meant to.

It'd be like riding a pony, having a full-sized adult dragon that's maybe 15' long, nose to tail tip, and like riding a great dane for anything smaller than that.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:26 pm

*coughs* I have that info those as I see them. Setian means the Alskyrian dragons of LSI though I kept them as the Alskyr site states them. Gryphons I changed. Gryphons were to big in my mind >.<

Anyway...

Very Small: Firelizard, Alis Gryph, Caer Lizard, Sea Lizard, Fairy Drak, Saurake

Small: Pernese (sport), winged wolves, Setian gryphon, Setian deep sea dragon, Drak, Khaurane, Gem Dragon, Il'arta, Kwatee Wolf

Medium-small: Pernese (green, blue, brown), Setian dragon, Setian gryphon, Setian deep sea dragon, Ortari'kion, Spell Weaver, Tavrayn, Sun Warrior

Medium: Pernese (bronze, gold), Setian dragon, Setian sea dragon, Tavrayn, Tajsar, Masen-dal, Asper-dal

Medium-large: Setian sea dragon

I have an image for the Pernese drawn up. I haven't got to the others. I will.

New postPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: Universal Size Chart...er... charts. Reply with quote
So a project I'm going to try and do really quickly before Geocities eats itself is to record the size ranges for the most basic dragon types that you see all over the Nexus, on the Universal Size Chart page... instead of the random spattering of species charts I have there. XD

I decide the wingspan/height/length differently because ratio's are a mystry for me. >.< I'm sure they're simple but I have everything (head length, neck length, body length, tail length, one wing's span, shoulder width, wingspan, and height to shoulder) in percents. I take the length and mulitply by, in the case of Pernese, .28 to get the height. *shrugs*

I need to make charts for all of my species. I'll get to it. I'm redoing the images so don't take mine. I do like that chart for the Pernese dragons but part of it dosn't make sense to me because I thought greens were 20-25 in the Ninth Pass but it has them larger there. Also, despite the errors in DLGtP, I though Ruth was 20ft...which would almost make that chart right because he was smaller. I dunno...everyone has a different idea on the Pernese. But those are mine...Unless we all agree on a chart for them. *blinkies*

Get you the rest of the info laters...Have to hunt it down!

delyar · Post by **delyar** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:28 pm

That's a good visual way of putting it, Shard. I hadn't thought of it that way. I remember trying to "measure" out Akyoth on my street once (in meters no less) but it didn't really convey the size. I've always been a champion of length measurements, but with that reasoning height seems so much more... practical?

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:31 pm

Shard wrote:Well, given the proportions of the rest of the creature, anything smaller than 20' is likely too small including the tail to lift itself and a human sized rider. Horses are 'squared', they're about the same length as they are height (roughly) but they don't have a long tail or long neck like dragons are meant to.

It'd be like riding a pony, having a full-sized adult dragon that's maybe 15' long, nose to tail tip, and like riding a great dane for anything smaller than that.

I agree...this is why I think we need a standard...And I'll change mine. I just need to do it now before I get to many riders paged. LOL

For me, a 15' dragon is about 4'2" to shoulder. That times 4 (inches) equals 16hh. Of course, my conversions or whatever are based on the actuall dragon drawing I have. XD

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:35 pm

I've never been able to comprehend size by length. That's why anything you see from me is by height, because I can imagine something by looking up and comparing it to my own height, but not by looking down the street and trying to imagine a great length. Unless it's something legless and serpentine, I like heights. XD

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:35 pm

I think any height/size chart that gets put out really should have a couple extras:

Dog, Pony, Horse, Moose, Elephant... bus, jet...

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:37 pm

Xenoqueen wrote:I've never been able to comprehend size by length. That's why anything you see from me is by height, because I can imagine something by looking up and comparing it to my own height, but not by looking down the street and trying to imagine a great length. Unless it's something legless and serpentine, I like heights. XD

My issue with that is I hardly ever get to be up close to any larger animals. It's been too long since I've been to the zoo, and almost like ... 30 years since I've stood next to a real live horse.

But then I'm 5'8, and had been quite used to looking at 6'4 guys in the eye, and over the heads of a LOT of my customers at work. For me, length is easier to comprehend, for that reason I guess.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:52 pm

Shard wrote:Well, given the proportions of the rest of the creature, anything smaller than 20' is likely too small including the tail to lift itself and a human sized rider. Horses are 'squared', they're about the same length as they are height (roughly) but they don't have a long tail or long neck like dragons are meant to.

It'd be like riding a pony, having a full-sized adult dragon that's maybe 15' long, nose to tail tip, and like riding a great dane for anything smaller than that.

And, not to encourage an arguement here, but that is, entirely possible Shard. I know from experience (I'm 6', and around 10 stone (140lb), approximately... and studied Ponies extensively while at Uni, I'm a big fan of them - silly as I may *look* on them). Pulling just from memory:

- Highlands are 13-14.2hh and regularly carry adults.
- Fells, average 13hh, also regularly carry adults (I know they "carry up to 15 stone comfortably" (edit: 15 stone ~ 210lb).
- Dales Ponies, 14-14.2hh. Again, regularly carry even heavy adults.
- Exmoor Ponies, 11.2 - 12.3hh. Can again, carry medium sized adults comfortably. I believe the gerenal rule of thumb with these is a "max 12 stone comfortably" type guide. (edit: 15 stone ~ 186lb).

So yeah, I personally don't see a problem with dragons in the 15' - 20' range... smaller then that, perhaps... but 15-20' has always seemed reasonable to me. I wouldn't expect them to carry much more then their rider, but that to me is part of the charm of them being a sport, they are more "delicate" then a green to gold sized dragon...

(Plus, I forgot to mention this before - I've always thought of Ramoth as 45' nose to tail tip... with both neck and tail extended... whereas both are curved in those images.)

delyar · Post by **delyar** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:57 pm

The weight a horse can carry depends on various other factors, however. A small-backed horse (like an Arabian) can carry a much greater weight, same with shorter-legged/stout horses.

However, Shard's point about the tail and the neck length is worth considering. That's a heck of a lot of weight to be carrying around on the ground, let alone in the air. (And for an airborne creature with hollow/lightweight bone structure, eek!)

Granted, we can always choose to go the "fantasy said I could do it" way. :P

Shard · Post by **Shard** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:20 pm

Well also consider: pernese dragons are meant to be fighting in the air. I for one would NOT want to be hanging on to a tiny bodied creature while it's doing maneuvers, plus its wings would easily snap above the rider or push them off.

I would say that yeah, it's easy to ride a pony *on the ground*

(and lol yes I've seen photos of people riding ponies, and they look hilarious) But given wings and 300 feet in the air?

Little dragons are excellent for certain things, fighting thread is not one of them I think. Operating without a rider, getting into smaller spaces, rescuing people, and such would be ideal. Bigger dragons, or at least medium sized ones I think, would be best for fighting.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:41 pm

Okay...so...we need a universal size chart (Nexus style) for Pern then. My 15 ft dragons are 16 hh which is the same size as the first dragons. It's up to you.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:58 pm

Likewise. My sports dragons will be around 15-20'... then the rest going up from there. This makes even the sports dragons as big as/bigger then the origional first dragons... Perhaps Virlante' just throws small dragons, and they're in an interval. -shrugs-.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:08 pm

Wooo-wee, is this a hot topic or what. XD Yeah. I've always had an easier time comprehending things compared by height. i.e., stand next to an underpass labelled with the height and go "wow, okay, so I have dragons that are THAT TALL at the shoulder, these bastards are BIG." Length I have much more trouble visualising. (Dray says horizontal just doesn't look 3D enough, and I'm inclined to agree -- tall seems more three-dimensional than long!) Anyways, if you guys want I can include a column for lengths in the size chart, but I would need y'all to give me a hand in gathering lengths as well as heights then. I'm not that good with the length stuff.

Okay...so...we need a universal size chart (Nexus style) for Pern then. My 15 ft dragons are 16 hh which is the same size as the first dragons. It's up to you.

Hee yeah, Yakima, that's what I'm doing here. XD

I think I'm going to go off of the chart I linked, but with a wider size range DOWN from what they have -- IE the stuff listed there will not be the average, it will be the biggest examples, or some of the biggest. How's that sound for Pernese?

Psst, Yakima -- are those random species-sizes you listed using the USC sizes or your own? Because if it's the latter, I need the actual foot measurements to do it the way that it'll fit into the site. XD Although I only really would use the Pernese sizes there because none of the rest of those are listed in the species that I'm going to be adding to the site.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by

I have that info those as I see them. Setian means the Alskyrian dragons of LSI though I kept them as the Alskyr site states them.

So does that mean that actual Alskyrians were in that size range, or is this a Yakima-only size range? Cause I do need the actual ones for the site itself, in feet or meters. :)

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:18 pm

Honestly, JKat, after all the time I've spent with my charts, I'm not changing it. I don't care. I've done a lot of reascurch and such trying to get something that works. If you want to use your own, fine. But despite everything I'm annoyed that you would simply choose a chart based off something that no one here has done. I didn't randomly think all this up. I've spent hours on it. For all of us here. Not just for me. Yeah, I'm mad. But do what you want. I feel like I have no say in stuff here despite everything. *shrugs* I was going to change this after reading what you had but I decided not to. I will be able to better agree when I have numbers before me.

What I posted is using your chart. The measurements for the Setian dragons are what MY Alskyrian dragons are. Shard and the others all had different dragon styes and sizes. I think Shard's are smaller. We all did things differently, which was one thing I didn't like about Alskyr...*shrugs*

I'm going to go work on Falas now...

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:26 pm

Yakima, no one's telling you to have to change your sizes.

We're attempting to find a universal average to mark as a reference point. Consensus so far seems to be on the chart that was linked, but that doesn't mean you have to stop using the sizes you always have.

Yakima · Post by **Yakima** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:37 pm

You just do whatever...I honestly don't care.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:39 pm

x.x Yakima, why the heck are you mad? What did I say? All I did was ask for the measurements. All I'm putting up is a reference chart for those of us like me who are not familiar with the early Nexus standard dragons. I don't understand why you think I'm asking you to change your sizes. I just want to know what they are!

Post by **Dray** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:58 pm

For me, I've always thought that Pernsies fell in this range (at least using your chart!)

Greens: Medium-Small to Medium
Blues: Medium
Browns: Medium to Medium-Large
Bronzes: Medium-Large
Golds: Large

Sports I guess would just be 'Small'?

Of course, I have some Pernish types from when I first started adopting that I labeled ridiculously large. I have a couple of greens that are 21+ feet tall, which puts them at BFG status. XD I'm probably just going to leave them as is and if I do new Pernzors I'll make 'em whatever we all decide is the universal size category for 'em.

I've always thought that Alskyrian dragons ran about blue to brown sized vs Pernese, or if they had a size range, it would run from Medium-Small to Medium-Large.

Danachians, I've always thought were larger. Maybe it's just because Shiolar's template was so dang huge. XD Their size ranges seem like they'd range from Medium to Very Large!

I can't find the original brightly coloured site that I found the Danachian dragon info on, but I copy/pasted it over to my old lmfao SCD dragon info site. Maybe the descriptions will help to determine the sizes? (For example when I hear 'delicate, agile and fast' I think 'Small' or 'Medium-Small' is the best size range!)

Green: The smallest and most common of the Danachian breed, greens are delicate, agile and fast, but don't have much stamina. They breed often and have small or no clutches. Most are female, and most choose female or overtly homosexual males as bonds.
Eggs per clutch: ~4-6
Blue: About the same size as the greens, blues are as agile, but have higher stamina. They are mostly male, and may choose females or males, though most choose males.
Eggs per clutch: ~4-6
Lavender: Considered a medium height in the Danachian size range, Lavenders have enough stamina to last several hours in strenuous flying conditions before having to rest. They're moderately agile, but don't have the same speed that Blues and Greens do. Most are softly metallic in colour. All are female, and most, if not all choose females as bonds. Some may chose males.
Eggs per clutch: ~5-8
Purple: Very much like Lavender dragons, Purples vary only in hide-colouration. Most have softly metallic hides. All are female, and most, if not all choose females as bonds. Some may chose males. ((<---- I think I miss-copied this! Lavenders are the ones with the faintly metallic hides, purples are more chromatic and less prone to running towards the blue end of the spectrum!))
Eggs per clutch: ~5-8
Copper: The male equivalent of Lavenders and Purples, Coppers are medium sized Danachian dragons. All are male, and most, if not all choose males as bonds. Some may chose females.
Eggs per clutch: ~5-8
Black: Black dragons of the Danachian breed are large in size. They have superb stamina, but are slow to turn, and are comparatively slow to their smaller sisters and brothers. They generally command a high ranking position in a Cathair or dragonry, and are more likely to catch Starries in flight. All are male. All blacks choose males as bonds.
Eggs per clutch: ~6-10
Silver: Silver dragons of the Danachian breed are much like Blacks, in size, strength, and intelligence. All are male. All silvers choose males as bonds.
Eggs per clutch: ~6-10
Starry: The largest Danachian dragons, Starries are the main egg layers, much like Pernese Golds. They're much larger then Blacks and Silvers, and are slow, lumbering fliers. Starry dragons command the most respect of any of their breed. Their hide colouration is generally a highly metallic cream colour. All Starries are female. All Starries choose females as bonds.
Eggs per clutch: ~6-12

Here is the Geperna info: http://wkw.envy.nu/mythicalae/lost_era/dminfo.html

Within two years of hatching, they achieve their full adult size (between 25-45 feet)...

It doesn't say if that's height or length, though since many people seem to go the length route, that would make more sense! (And I can tone down the MASSIVE size of the Geperna that I had listed from before! :D)

I hope some of that helps. XD

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:03 pm

omg Dray, thank you. XD *eats information*

Xenoqueen · Post by **Xenoqueen** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:05 pm

...you know, length would make a LOT more sense for my "XXL, 44 feet" Geperna I got from a giveaway. XD I always wondered why he was a freaking small planet of a blue....

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:08 pm

Huh. I always considered the Programmed size in that chart to be the "default" Pern scale. Although in my imagination, they always seem to be closer to the Ninth Pass dragons, oddly enough. XP Oh well, if anyone happens to have any Pern-descended dragons from me with listed sizes (which is quite possible) you may feel free to tweak them to fit into whichever scale you use.

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:09 pm

Yeah, isn't that just ridiculous? XD Giant dragons, while cool, are... well, giant dragons.

Question just to put out there for everyone, especially those who prefer length: What if I had a secondary Universal Size Chart listing lengths? From Very Short to Very Long, that you could use either alongside or instead of the height measurements I've been doing for 'em? More work for me, but I like complete things! Would anyone appreciate that?

JKatkina · Post by **JKatkina** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:10 pm

Kitsu -- I think that's exactly what the chart-maker was saying. XD Like, the Ninth-Pass dragons were freaks of nature for being so painfully huge. The Programmed sizes were intended to be defaults or something.

Kitsuneko · Post by **Kitsuneko** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:13 pm

Well, I meant "default size" in the Nexus, actually, if I wasn't clear. But now I'm wondering if I was the only one who assumed my greens were always 20-25 feet long and golds didn't get larger than 45. XP